Gruppe M air filter ???

[AR]

Gruppe M air filter ?

http://www.daliracing.com/v666-5/catalog/index_browse_part.cfm?focus=340

Just wondering if any of you use it and what your opinions are of the K&N filter element.

Cheers

AR

[wgmr]

I have not, but am considering it so will watch this post,

[NSXGOD]

Gruppe M air filter ?

http://www.daliracing.com/v666-5/catalog/index_browse_part.cfm?focus=340

Just wondering if any of you use it and what your opinions are of the K&N filter element.

Cheers

AR

I checked on the instockness status on these for you guys and Gruppe M USA has none - the last shipment they got in (last week) just covered their B/O's.

[simonprelude]

Just buy from GruppeM UK ??

I have one on my S2000, beautiful piece of kit and a great improvement.

The NSX however is staying standard.

[AR]

I decided against it, it seems like unless running FI the K&N could do more harm than good.

[NSXGOD]

I decided against it, it seems like unless running FI the K&N could do more harm than good.

I'm curious how you came to that concusion?

[AR]

Well I searched on prime and other websites. Considering what little HP could be gained on a stock NSX it is hardly worth the worry, at least to me, others are welcome to try whatever they want with their NSX. To me it just ain't worth it.

[AR]

http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Performance/airintake.htm

[NSXGOD]

Well I searched on prime and other websites. Considering what little HP could be gained on a stock NSX it is hardly worth the worry, at least to me, others are welcome to try whatever they want with their NSX. To me it just ain't worth it.

Not having any independently documented huge positive HP gain is hardly "harm" except perhaps to your wallet :mrgreen:

I'd venture to say that 80-90% of aftermarket "performance" equipment does nothing to make the cars go faster (like most CF & shiny stuff and etc) and lots of it makes the cars actually go slower (like big heavy wheels and tires, huge brake kits, wings that double as airbrakes, etc)

If you have already taken care of the 3.0L motors inherent bottleneck (by installing headers and a freeflo exhaust) and have increased the TB opening and or done the valves and added cams, then the intake system (starting at the hole in the fender) would be the next place to look for a few hidden HP.

Our in house testing on my car suggest that is the case anyway.

Everyone has a different priority hierarchy (Style vs Performance) - YMMV. :mrgreen:

[mccarthy]

The first thing i did to first impreza i owned (i know it not an NSX) was to get the engine blue printed..... i tell you what i will most cetainly be doing the same to my NSX when i get it. The way the engine reved, pulled, felt amazing differance.... not really any thing to do with the air filters more to the remark of the "pointless" power mods this is one that really works a treat :mrgreen:

[NSXGOD]

The first thing i did to first impreza i owned (i know it not an NSX) was to get the engine blue printed..... i tell you what i will most cetainly be doing the same to my NSX when i get it. The way the engine reved, pulled, felt amazing differance.... not really any thing to do with the air filters more to the remark of the "pointless" power mods this is one that really works a treat :mrgreen:

Actually, that exercise is not worth the $ on the NSX unless you are RTR. If you look before you leap, you will find out that just the gasket set for putting the motor back together is $1000.00USD (my cost - you will get raped over there), and the motor is pretty well dialed from the getgo.

The best bang for the buck mods on the OBD1 cars are:
headers
exhaust
chip
bored out TB
cold air intake
loose weight

then
cams & a little head massaging.

:mrgreen:

[AR]

But as mine is a 99 3.2 OBD 2 I am pretty much left with a comptech SC or Gruppe M as the only options for extra power. Already replaced the factory exhaust with a Tubi.

[NSXGOD]

But as mine is a 99 3.2 OBD 2 I am pretty much left with a comptech SC or Gruppe M as the only options for extra power. Already replaced the factory exhaust with a Tubi.

The Gruppe M never worked well with the OBD2 except as a "racer" :mrgreen: ie - you lost your OBD2 crap.

The Comptech kit is no longer made since Whipple dropped the unit they were using - at least until they decide if they want to recertify with CARB or just make it as a "offroad" only part. If you can find one someplace, get it.

[Papalazarou]

Hi,

just ordered my Gruppe M air-intake from Japan, because Gruppe M Europe (UK) don't stock them according to the guy I spoke to.
Apparently it will take about 3 weeks to come, but was considerably cheaper than the same product advertised elsewhere.

Can't wait, according to the feedback on NSX prime, the induction noise is amazing!!

Regards,

James.

[AR]

Oh well so I went for it. I ordered the Kevlar as I like the look of it. What exhaust system are you running Papalazarou?

[Papalazarou]

Hi AR,

Currently just the standard one, but I have plans!! in fact only yesterday I was looking at Supersprint and Taitec.
I suppose it largely comes down to price.
I had a look on the Science of speed website and they're doing the GT lightweight system for around £650.00, or a special offer on the Supersprint at just over £900.00 + postage.
My gut reaction is that the Supersprint is a better product...I may be wrong though.
I would also like to go the manifold route as I hear the standard pre 3.2 manifolds are quite restrictive. The S.O.S website quote around 22 bhp increase from a complete system.
I'm holding fast until Friday when I go to Bristol to have my EPS diagnosed. It hasn't worked since Saturday, which is pretty annoying because I thought I'd fixed it and was feeling pretty smug.
For me the best noise comes from the intake, so I'm not after anything too intrusive.
What about you? Are you still running standard?
Also, what lead time did you get on the air filter?

[AR]

I have a Tubi Sport and love it.

The air filter should ship on the 15 of November.

I went for a Tubi for the same reason I went with GruppeM, quality.

Cheers

AR

[Papalazarou]

Hi AR,

I really like the idea of the Tubi, but I fear it's a little outside my budget.
I heard one on a 360 a while back and thought it sounded amazing.
Is it loud?

Cheers, James.

[AR]

Go to:

http://www.scuderiasystems.com/M-Media.htm

Look for the Honda NSX video.

It is not really that loud as compared to others, but it certainly changes the sound to what I believe a supercar should sound like.

BTW I hope the GruppeM air filter comes with instructions as it looks like there is a few vaccum lines attached to the factory air box.

Cheers

AR

[jaytip]

I would also like to go the manifold route as I hear the standard pre 3.2 manifolds are quite restrictive.
Unless i'm mistaken,I believe that it is the 3.0 manifold that is the restrictive one not the 3.2 You may be wasting quite a lot of money if you replace the manifold.

[Kevin]

Look what I have just waiting for me to fit. Unfortunately it has to wait until I have done a new bumper to go with it.

[AR]

Kevin is that a Taitec center exit? Looks nice. Do we see a difusser on the way?

[Kevin]

This exhuast will not fit a euro bumper. This is becuase of our wider number plate. The exhaust actually comes out through the bottom of the number plate!

So I am planning on constructing a complete rear bumper, with some 'fancy' stuff underneath :)

It's going to take some time though.

[Papalazarou]

Kevin,

did you buy that in the UK or through a shop in the states?
Also, was it a hassle free experience?

Cheers,

James.

[Kevin]

It's a (hardly) used item I bought through Prime, and it was a hassle free experience.

[Papalazarou]

To get back on thread, My Gruppe M air intake is officially on its way!! Only two more weeks to wait.
I will post a video when fitted (provided I can figure out how).

James. :D

[Papalazarou]

Just received my new Gruppe M air filter, rushed down to the garage, fitted it then tried to close the engine cover.......
I suppose it's a live and learn senario but no-one warned me that there would be a clearance issue with 'targa' engine covers!!
Anyway, I have temporarily solved this problem by removing the engine cover altogether!
The next thing I need to do is find an engine cover from a scrap yard and modify it to fit. However the problem remains that I've got no-where to stow my roof.
I think i will try to get hold of a hardtop engine cover then make some adaptors so the targa roof can rest on top of the cover?
Any ideas?

Cheers,

James.

[TheQuietOne]

James,

What a pain!

How does the filter look - I'm very tempted? Does it sound any better or haven't you managed to take it for a spin yet? You strike me as a very philosophical kind of a guy, and I applaud you for that - better than chucking your toys out of the pram in my opinion - although with this and the EPS problem you'd be well within your rights!

Where did you get the filter from in the end? How much was it finally including all the extra charges and delivery costs if you don't mind?

I hope you get a solution for the problem!

Matt.

[Kevin]

If you're prepared to wait, I was planning on doing some Type R stylee covers (soon, this winter anyway).

[modarr]

Thank you very much,

I'll be on the list for one please.

Mo

[Papalazarou]

Hi Matt,

In answer to your questions, I have actually driven it with the new filter and I thought the following;
1. It looks fantastic, a bit like jet engine.
2. it sounds normal when your cruising but when you bury your foot you get this magnified throaty growl and a bit of a whistle which I assume is the air giong past the buttlerfly at a certain stage of throttle opening (could be wrong). - I think that with an engine cover on, it would sound about 20-30% quieter which is good, because at the moment it sounds like a touring car.
3. I got it from Gruppe M Japan because GM Uk don't import them. It took two weeks to dispatch but only 4 days to arrive which was pretty efficient.

Cheers,

James.

[AR]

James you do know how much this is building up my anticipation. How easy was it to install, did it come with instructions? How about weight?

Cheers

AR

[Papalazarou]

Hi AR,

Yours should be here soon!!

It is very well made and looks fantastic in the engine bay.
As you may have read, I'm running it without a parcel shelf, but am toying with the option of finding another one and modifying it so you can see the engine. It seems such a waste to hide the air filter away.

With regards to fitting, it takes all of about 20 minutes, unless you've got a targa roof, then it's about 35. i.e; 20 mins to fit / 5 mins trying to shut the parcel shelf / 5 mins of denial then 5 mins to remove the parcel shelf.

Weight = a fair bit lighter than the original airbox.
Instructions = are wrong and in Japanese, just use the force Luke!!
(I zip tied the homeless pipes to the coolant reservoir pipe - seems ok).

When I get time and I've turned some of the warning lights out I'll take a video of it and post it on the site.


Cheers,

James.

[AR]

Got mine, all my reservations were dispeled about the K&N/GruppeM filter once I reached V-Tec in third and felt a real kick as supposed to a slight change before. The sounds is intoxicating, it sounds similar to when I was running sans cats. It really compliments the Tubi.

[Martin]

Hi AR and Papalazarou,

Just wondering how you guys are getting on with your Gruppe M filters?

I am thinking about a new filter at the moment.

Would you recommend the Gruppe M filter?

Also, how much did it cost?

Cheers,
Martin

[mutley]

HI Guys,

I'm am a tad confused. I was about to go down the K&N route, as that is what I fotted to the Beemer, and I was as happy as a pig in poo about it. But by the sounds of the other posts here, the K&N seems to be crap. I'm nealy convinced to go down the GruppeM way now!

Are K&N really that bad on an NSX?

PS, my NSX is coming on slowly but surely, nearly time to pick your brains about more problems!!!!

[Papalazarou]

Hi,

AR and I have slightly different opinions of the Gruppe M air cleaner so I'm sure he'll intercede on this one also.

My opinion is that it sounds fantastic but can be a bit much if you drive the car a lot, although you'll hardly notice it's there below half throttle.

With regards to power, I'm pretty sure it didn't make any difference although it may be different with other mods.

It's very well made and Gruppe M are pretty efficient although you must order it through Japan. You can technically get it through the US but it's more expensive and there's a long waiting list apparently.

Cheers,

James.

[AR]

I am real happy with mine thus far. It makes the car rev faster, the transition to V-TEC seems a lot more noticeable and stronger. I do have a DF Air Intake System scoop that is a lot larger than the OEM one. I am not sure if the Tubi helps, but is only bound to help it breath better.

One thing I did at the time of instalation as I did when I fitted test pipes for a while and the Tubi exhaust, I always resetted the ECU and drove it for a few miles to get the car to relearn my way of driving or whatever parameters might have been changed. It might all be a load of old twaddle, but it seems to work.

Would I recommend it? Yes. Is it worth the money? Only you can answer that one.

BTW according to James it would not fit under the stock engine lid, so that is one thing to consider. Also it is a bit loud, but no uncomfortable.

Shame you are not closer as it is the sort of thing that you have to listen to see if you like it.

It is about £ 400.00 from Japan including funds transfer fees, shipping and customs duties.

Hope that helps

Cheers

AR

[NSXGOD]

HI Guys,

I'm am a tad confused. I was about to go down the K&N route, as that is what I fotted to the Beemer, and I was as happy as a pig in poo about it. But by the sounds of the other posts here, the K&N seems to be crap. I'm nealy convinced to go down the GruppeM way now!
Are K&N really that bad on an NSX?

Hmm. I would assume that everyone here knows that GruppeM is the NSX related stage name for the K&N importer for Japan (Mr. O) and that the filter element inside the GruppeM CF intake is a K&N filter?

ALL K&N filters filter as well or as poorly (depending upon your point of view) as they all do.

In other words, the Gruppe M Intake K&N filter element filters the air in the same fashion and as effectively as the K&N drop in for the OEM air box or a more generic K&N open air element tube kit.

I certainly does it with more style than the average intake though.

:mrgreen:

[AR]

HI Guys,

I'm am a tad confused. I was about to go down the K&N route, as that is what I fotted to the Beemer, and I was as happy as a pig in poo about it. But by the sounds of the other posts here, the K&N seems to be crap. I'm nealy convinced to go down the GruppeM way now!
Are K&N really that bad on an NSX?

Hmm. I would assume that everyone here knows that GruppeM is the NSX related stage name for the K&N importer for Japan (Mr. O) and that the filter element inside the GruppeM CF intake is a K&N filter?

ALL K&N filters filter as well or as poorly (depending upon your point of view) as they all do.

In other words, the Gruppe M Intake K&N filter element filters the air in the same fashion and as effectively as the K&N drop in for the OEM air box or a more generic K&N open air element tube kit.

I certainly does it with more style than the average intake though.

:mrgreen:

Would the surface area and the tuned cavity design not have any positive effects?

Cheers

AR

[mutley]

My fault,
I was refering to the K&N 57i induction kit which I have seen around the 200 quid mark. The images of the Gruppe M cone looks completely different.
Excuse my ignorance in these matters, but I presume the Gruppe M is far superior to the 57i?
I'm still new at playing with my NSX, it's completely different to working on my BM.

PS if anyone has ideas about any other decent mods, please let me know.

Cheers.

[NSXGOD]

Would the surface area and the tuned cavity design not have any positive effects?
Cheers
AR

Anything is possible; however the air in the OEM intake system is "colder" than the air in ANY INTAKE drawing from the engine bay because it pulls from the fender. I think the temp of the intake charge is more important than the shape of the part that holds the filter.

Remember that the limiting factor in the intake system is the size of the TB - you can have an intake the size of a London Double decker bus and the air that it filters still has to fit through that hole.

[NSXGOD]

My fault,
I was refering to the K&N 57i induction kit which I have seen around the 200 quid mark. The images of the Gruppe M cone looks completely different.

It is. The K&N Intake you are referring to:

http://www.daliracing.com/v666-5/catalog/index_browse_part.cfm?focus=1052

actually has more filter surface area than the Gruppe M, and we ship them for 87.1979 "quid" - a bit less than the "rape me please, I voted Socialist" price quoted above.


Excuse my ignorance in these matters, but I presume the Gruppe M is far superior to the 57i? I'm still new at playing with my NSX, it's completely different to working on my BM.

It is "dry" carbon, plus it has some nice machined billet connectors, plus it comes from Japan =££££.


PS if anyone has ideas about any other decent mods, please let me know. Cheers.

Everyone has their own list of what is important to them. :mrgreen: