Brake pads, again.

[madras]

What are peoples recommendation for pads, I've been through quite a few lately, project mu were strong at stopping but only lasted about 1 track day and they were finished, they actually wore through. Then I did the same with the standard pads which were just an experiment really, stopping wasn't great. Mintex are pretty decent but again they are not lasting long with a couple of track days and they are finished. Are there any pads that will last any longer or this is just how it is if you want to be able to stop the car quicker they are going to wear down quicker. Anyone tried Pagid? I could try the M1155 but suspect they will wear quicker than the 1144 are they are more aggressive.

project mu lasted 4500miles 2 track days, 1 really wet.
standard pads lasted 6000miles 2 track days
Mintex 1144 lasted 4000miles 2 track days so far but they wont last another track day

[markc]

You probably need one of our dedicated track heads (Kevin or Mo) to chip in but I think both settled on Ferodo DS2500 after lots of testing.

Porterfield R4-S and Pagid RS4 Blue and/or Orange all have lots of supporters in the Porsche track day world but I don't if you can get them for the NSX.

I'm not a fan of Mintex 1144's myself, the pad material REALLY burns it's way into the wheel rims, and they didn't perform that well either.

I agree that Project MU's will only do about 2 track days, plus a little road work, depending on how many actual track miles you cram into a day. Good feel and fade resistance while on track though.

Cheers

Mark

[madras]

Thanks Mark.

And which brake cooling ducting is best?

thanks

[Senninha]

Which Project Mu's are you using? As I'm surer eyou know there are several grades of pad for different uses. I'm running on the street/track pads which have a street bias. I've covered 11k miles and a track session and have lots of material left to play with.

That said I've not completed a full track day to offer further comparison for you.

regards, Paul

[markc]

Thanks Mark.

And which brake cooling ducting is best?

thanks

The biggest you can fit :) I'm running the simple Dali aluminium deflectors.

A former NSXcb track head went for broke, look here... http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/testvb/showthread.php?p=56181#post56181

If your car isn't a daily driver you can remove the backing/splash plates behind the discs which will help cooling.


Which Project Mu's are you using? As I'm surer eyou know there are several grades of pad for different uses. I'm running on the street/track pads which have a street bias.

Yes, they're the ones I'm using as well. Pretty good street/track compromise, no squealing like most track day pads, but as you've noticed they don't last that well when abused on track.

Cheers

Mark

[nigel]

Chris,
Alot of the folks over here including myself use the Porsche cooling ducts that can be had for about 9 quid each.
Seems cheap for a Porsche part but it's true.
Get some 2 inch aircraft "scat tube", (the reddish/orange stuff) and some Adel clamps, (rubber lined acft. clamps) and feed the duct from up behind your A/C condensers.
Works the business.
Prime has the link with the P/Ns and a how to.

Cheers
nigel

[rsevo6]

I am using Carbotech PantherPlus on my CTSC NSX.
On the street these brake very well, much more agressive than OE.
However, on the track, they seem to heat up very quick and after just a few fast laps they started to fade.
On my tracktoy, a Toyota MR2 Turbo with 310 BHP I am for some time now using EBC Yellowstuff and I have to say these perform extremely well. No fading even after really fast laps. Also, when cold on the street they don't slip through, only need 1 short brake to get good braking as opposed to many track orientated pads that slide through a lot when cold.
If I buy new pads for the NSX, it will very probably be Yellowstuff

[jaytip]

I am using Carbotech PantherPlus on my CTSC NSX.
On the street these brake very well, much more agressive than OE.
However, on the track, they seem to heat up very quick and after just a few fast laps they started to fade.
On my tracktoy, a Toyota MR2 Turbo with 310 BHP I am for some time now using EBC Yellowstuff and I have to say these perform extremely well. No fading even after really fast laps. Also, when cold on the street they don't slip through, only need 1 short brake to get good braking as opposed to many track orientated pads that slide through a lot when cold.
If I buy new pads for the NSX, it will very probably be Yellowstuff
I thought brake fade was due to brake fluid getting to hot???

[gcon45]

Do Ferodo make their DS3000 for the NSX?

If I were in your shoes, these are what I'd be using for track purposes.

They aren't road legal however as they barely function when cold plus they will eat your brake discs alive!

Such a hard compound with a high brass content.

[rsevo6]

I thought brake fade was due to brake fluid getting to hot???

In most cases it is indeed the brakefluid having too much water in it (old) or heating beyond it's boiling point, can however also be the pads exceeding their temp range.
I am using new ATE blue racing fluid (same as in the tracktoy) so I am certain it isn't the brakefluid that is causing the fading, are clearly the pads that are heating up beyond their capability.

[gcon45]

The ATE super blue is good fluid.

Castrol SRF has an even higher boiling point but has a short lifespan and costs £40+ per litre.

[Lankstarr]

Mark,

Why would u not remove splash guards if car is a DD?

Thx,

L*

The biggest you can fit :) I'm running the simple Dali aluminium deflectors.

A former NSXcb track head went for broke, look here... http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/testvb/showthread.php?p=56181#post56181

If your car isn't a daily driver you can remove the backing/splash plates behind the discs which will help cooling.



Yes, they're the ones I'm using as well. Pretty good street/track compromise, no squealing like most track day pads, but as you've noticed they don't last that well when abused on track.

Cheers

Mark

[markc]

On my tracktoy, a Toyota MR2 Turbo with 310 BHP I am for some time now using EBC Yellowstuff and I have to say these perform extremely well. No fading even after really fast laps. Also, when cold on the street they don't slip through, only need 1 short brake to get good braking as opposed to many track orientated pads that slide through a lot when cold.
If I buy new pads for the NSX, it will very probably be Yellowstuff

In the nicest possible way, EBC pads in my experience are sh*ite! I tried Greenstuff in the Porsche and they a) faded badly and b) lasted about 5mins. They claim that the brake dust is easy to wash off and tend to be championed by the Corsa/Saxo boys where looks are prized far above performance. No offence implied to you rsevo6 :)


I thought brake fade was due to brake fluid getting to hot???

It depends what you mean by "fade"? If the pedal goes soft, long or all the way to the floor it's usually a fluid problem. If the pedal stays firm but actual braking is reduced it's more likely the pads overheating, where the resin in them melts and releases gases that don't allow the disc pad interface to work properly. In practice it's usually a combination of the two.

In both cases insufficient cooling is the cause but whether you put this down to individual components (fluid, pads, discs) or a generally underspecified system, for track day work, is open for debate.


Why would u not remove splash guards if car is a DD?

They're there to protect the inside of the disc, primarily to stop the discs/calipers/pads from getting waterlogged when you drive through heavy rain or big puddles. If the discs and pads are waterlogged when you hit the brakes they don't work well until the water is squeezed out/boiled off.

Joe(anne) Punter won't be anticipating this so the manufacturers try and prevent it with these guards. Really modern braking systems periodically apply the brakes lightly if they haven't been used for a while (like a long motorway run) or pre-prep them when you come off the throttle to ensure there's no water in there that might reduce their function.

Cheers

Mark

[rsevo6]

In the nicest possible way, EBC pads in my experience are sh*ite! I tried Greenstuff in the Porsche and they a) faded badly and b) lasted about 5mins. They claim that the brake dust is easy to wash off and tend to be championed by the Corsa/Saxo boys where looks are prized far above performance. No offence implied to you rsevo6 :)

Non taken mate ;)
On the EBC I was put off at first exactly by the reasons you describe, thought EBC to be ****.
When having my new brakediscs for the MR2 cryo-treated, the delivery of these went completely wrong and as compensation I got free Yellowstuff pads.
I decided to try them and was pleasantly surprised.
I experience almost NO reduction in brake performance when going full blast for 5+ laps on a 4.2 KM track, haven't been able to do this with any other brakepad before without suffering noticable decrease in brake performance.
Also the durability of the pads is amazing, have done about 1000Km track use and they are still about 30% left.

I am this season entering the MaX5 racing class (Mazda MX-5 racing). In this class EBC yellowstuff are used in the front brakes and redstuff in the rear brakes. This combination seems to work very well in this car with full race use.




It depends what you mean by "fade"? If the pedal goes soft, long or all the way to the floor it's usually a fluid problem. If the pedal stays firm but actual braking is reduced it's more likely the pads overheating, where the resin in them melts and releases gases that don't allow the disc pad interface to work properly. In practice it's usually a combination of the two.

In both cases insufficient cooling is the cause but whether you put this down to individual components (fluid, pads, discs) or a generally underspecified system, for track day work, is open for debate.

In the case of the NSX with the Carbotech pads, the pedal stays firm but brake performance is much reducing after about 3 hot laps. Cooling is not the issue as with the OE pads on the track, brake performance decreased in a lot less manner. Also I have installed Porsche 911 brake cooling ducts, so I am 100% sure the pads are the problem and not cooling.
As said, on the street the Panthers are better than OE as in braking better with same pedal effort, but on track they are worse as they loose braking performance a lot faster than OE.

My own experience with the Yellowstuff on my MR2 leads to the conclusion that I will be getting these for the nSX next. Also hearing experiences with Yellowstuff/Redstuff on the Max5 cars are positive. I will be able to feel that myself within 2 weeks when first testing and a few days later racing my newly built racecar

[Silver Surfer]

Greenstuff are notoriously found to be c~~p!
Yellow/Redstuff has had many good review in the MR2/Elise forums.

The Green and Yellow are very different to each other in performance.

SS