bubbling Paint..

[Boomin33]

what a horrible sounding subject to bring up on this site.

Anyway, I've got two little bubbled looking spots that have cropped up on the passenger side rear panel - lower part, near ground but on the main panel... not skirt :( one is just smaller than a 5 p coin and the other about half that size. If I were to pick at it,, certain could just flake it away to reveal aluminium...

If it weren't an Aluminium panel i'd say it looks exactly like rust/corrosion eating away under the paint.

Anyone ever seen this before?

It's going to be a real expensive remedy I figure.. as it is pretty much the largest panel on the car and it is "oh so easy to match" IOP...

[NSXGB]

Calling WhyOne. . . .

[WhyOne?]

Hello!

Just because the body panels are aluminium, doesn't mean they are immune from corrosion!

I have seen signs of corrosion on a number of NSX's & myself had corrosion bubbles appear around the windscreen washer nozzles.

I was, however, fortunate - a combination of my Honda dealership fighting my corner for me, and Honda UK being kind, meant the corrosion was properly treated & the bonnet (& headlight covers) were resprayed as a 'goodwill' gesture.

[markc]

Anyway, I've got two little bubbled looking spots that have cropped up on the passenger side rear panel - lower part, near ground but on the main panel... not skirt :( one is just smaller than a 5 p coin and the other about half that size. If I were to pick at it,, certain could just flake it away to reveal aluminium...

If it weren't an Aluminium panel i'd say it looks exactly like rust/corrosion eating away under the paint.

Anyone ever seen this before?

It's not uncommon to see this paint bubbling effect although it more usually occurs where the front wings (fenders) meet the plastic nose section, usually at it's lower edge.

I believe it is indeed corrosion, or more specifically oxidation, to the aluminium surface. Nothing for it but to remove the paint, treat the oxidation then re-paint the area.

Cheers

Mark

[WhyOne?]

Just found the thread re. bubbling paint.

Picture of Y1's problem in post #27.

http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/testvb/showthread.php?t=3443&highlight=corrosion&page=3

[Boomin33]

Yep... I was going to get a detail job on it in a couple of weeks to try and seal/prevent it from gradually growing... but I guess once oxidation starts... there's no stopping it, eh.

Will probably wait until the end of Summer/Fall. What are the chances of getting a near perfect match on this panel? :(

If James still has his procar bonnet, was going to get that... so could do both at once.. that way I have a bonnet and Panel that have the same weird tint!

I'll get some pics of my blems on this thread next time I take it out of the garage.

[Lankstarr]

Quite a common problem on NSXs unfortunately, as MArk says it's usually at the front wing/bumper join. You might get away with them just stripping down said area and blending or blowing in a patch but with the notorious IOP I guess all you can do is cross your fingers. I bet plenty of IOP cars have had paint in the states and people have been perfectly happy... if you get 99% there then you'll never tell unless you're scrutinising.

James got sick of the bonnet sale and took it to the tip! Not sure of the match but you may end up blowing in the whole front end if you get a bonnet and then your original bonnet won't match your wings. That's what put me off on a red car so I'd guess a IOP car would be worse!?

YOu could always try finefiller, it's worked wonders around the windows at home!

Good luck!

L*

[Nick Graves]

IIRC, Aluminium oxide is impermeable to oxygen. Therefore unlike ferrous oxide, it self-protects and oughtn't spread like tinworm.

I've therefore decided to ignore the small patches on mine. There's the front wing edges and a bubble on the bottom of the driver's door.

Where on a composite body of ally over steel (Superleggera construction), it acts like a battery when wet and the corrosion (of the steel, IIRC!) is far more serious.

[eclipse1501]

Volcanic corrosion of the NSX can also be induced by not using the correct primer or paint when respraying or touching up.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=NAABS5KrVDYC&pg=PA117&lpg=PA117&dq=volcanic+corrosion+of+aluminium&source=bl&ots=vCVFZCf6bF&sig=woRKcsCSuvH-mIRUpUwi5z7mjfo&hl=en&ei=sicNTKepJOCN4gbh3dCUAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

[NSX 2000]

Rob, your car is not that old, I would first take it to a Honda dealer and ask if they will fix it under warranty.

Paul

[WhyOne?]

Rob, your car is not that old, I would first take it to a Honda dealer and ask if they will fix it under warranty.

Paul

Standard corrosion warranty is 6 years.

I was grateful to receive a 'goodwill repair' from Honda UK when Y1 was nearly 7.

[Nick Graves]

Volcanic corrosion of the NSX can also be induced by not using the correct primer or paint when respraying or touching up.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=NAABS5KrVDYC&pg=PA117&lpg=PA117&dq=volcanic+corrosion+of+aluminium&source=bl&ots=vCVFZCf6bF&sig=woRKcsCSuvH-mIRUpUwi5z7mjfo&hl=en&ei=sicNTKepJOCN4gbh3dCUAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

Thanks for that! It's a looooooonnng time since I did A-level chemistry.

I shall immediately continue to do nothing.

[eclipse1501]

Thanks for that! It's a looooooonnng time since I did A-level chemistry.

I shall immediately continue to do nothing.

Good move on your part I think. The very first paint shop I used applied the wrong primer and it reacted - no time for corrosion - only a very sad looking greyish stain. Thankfully it was only a 5p size touch up! Since then I always remind my painter the car is aluminium.

[JQD84983]

Just cleaned mine today and noticed a small amount of bubbling at the bottom of the back wheel arch. My car will be 6 years old this year so will have to see what HUK has to say.

[Boomin33]

Let me know how you get on... I haven't done anything about mine yet. Was going to have a shop take a look at it next week.

Then again, I'm 2nd owner ( at least ) and doubt warrantees apply this far down the line. i.e. 7 years / 3 owners etc.

[NoelWatson]

Standard corrosion warranty is 6 years.

I was grateful to receive a 'goodwill repair' from Honda UK when Y1 was nearly 7.

http://www.honda.co.uk/cars/owners/youandyourcar/warranty/


Structural Corrosion Warranty 12 Years

Honda warrants that the Honda car specified on your Warranty Certificate is free from corrosion from the inside to the outside of body panels for the period of 12 years unlimited mileage from the “Warranty Start Date” as specified on your Warranty Certificate.

[Papalazarou]

I may be wrong, but I think this bubbling paint issue only affects 97/8 cars onwards. I've never seen an early car with this issue, but owned three late cars with this problem.
I suspect Honda changed something on the later cars which caused this reaction.

Cheers,

James.

[WhyOne?]

http://www.honda.co.uk/cars/owners/youandyourcar/warranty/


Structural Corrosion Warranty 12 Years

Honda warrants that the Honda car specified on your Warranty Certificate is free from corrosion from the inside to the outside of body panels for the period of 12 years unlimited mileage from the “Warranty Start Date” as specified on your Warranty Certificate.

Interesting.

So Boomin33 shouldn't have any problems getting Honda to rectify his problem?

[Nick Graves]

'twas only six years according to my service book. Dunno when it changed to 10/12.

[Nick Graves]

In response to James' point, I believe 97/98 they changed the formulation of the annealing, so the external panels were even more dent-resistant.

Maybe it made them more paint-resistant, too.

[NoelWatson]

Interesting.

So Boomin33 shouldn't have any problems getting Honda to rectify his problem?

My 2004 has some bubbling and Honda initially rejected it due to age of car, so I'm not sure.

[markc]

I may be wrong, but I think this bubbling paint issue only affects 97/8 cars onwards. I've never seen an early car with this issue, but owned three late cars with this problem.
I suspect Honda changed something on the later cars which caused this reaction.

I know of, and have heard of several earlier cars that have experienced paint bubbling where the plastic panels meet and rub on the aluminium panels. The areas usually exhibiting this problem are the front and rear wings where the nose section and rear valance butt up to them.

Cheers

Mark

[nobby]

I had bubbling underneath the side indicator on the nearside front wing ... very odd ... as the car was being resprayed this has now been resolved; but i asked the guys what was causing the bubbling. they said there was nothing obvious, but black spots had appeared on the surface of the aluminium below the paint/undercoat, and this seemed to attribute to the bubbling ... they done what they could to remove this spots and obviously with a new coat of paint etc HOPEFULLY the issue has gone away now

[simonprelude]

This was one of the things that always annoyed me about P27.
Never did anything about it but had an offer from Honda Swindon (plant) to look at it for me.
If I had done anything it would have probably have been back to Japan for the refresh program.

[Boomin33]

Well, I'm back on the case and have booked my car into Chiswick Honda for the 28th of this month... and made them aware of the paint issue and my expectations of them to find an amicable solution.

They are going to get it into the bodyshop, take pics and approach Honda UK for me. As it's a 2003 with 32K miles. and only done 11,000 mi's since buying it from their showroom in 2007. I could have a chance. I figure this year is about the last chance to get Honda to consider helping out on these cars, if not already a couple years too late?

Getting this sorted as there's a high probability my car will be on PistonHeads by August, :(.. Although a fairly common fault, figure it will sell with less hassle when corrected. You practically need to stick your nose right up to the bottom of the wheel arch to even notice!

How many £1,000's do you recon I'll have to fork out to fix, if HondaUK blanks me?? I'm hoping they will, at least cover 50% of the cost.


--- OH Yeah... Here's a pic from the day we showed up for the NSX picture book shoot. ..right before Security showed up and 'postured' for my benefit.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o136/boomin33/IMAG0418.jpg

[NoelWatson]

Well, I'm back on the case and have booked my car into Chiswick Honda for the 28th of this month... and made them aware of the paint issue and my expectations of them to find an amicable solution.

They are going to get it into the bodyshop, take pics and approach Honda UK for me. As it's a 2003 with 32K miles. and only done 11,000 mi's since buying it from their showroom in 2007. I could have a chance. I figure this year is about the last chance to get Honda to consider helping out on these cars, if not already a couple years too late?

Getting this sorted as there's a high probability my car will be on PistonHeads by August, :(.. Although a fairly common fault, figure it will sell with less hassle when corrected. You practically need to stick your nose right up to the bottom of the wheel arch to even notice!

How many £1,000's do you recon I'll have to fork out to fix, if HondaUK blanks me?? I'm hoping they will, at least cover 50% of the cost.


--- OH Yeah... Here's a pic from the day we showed up for the NSX picture book shoot. ..right before Security showed up and 'postured' for my benefit.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o136/boomin33/IMAG0418.jpg


Rob, I am three months ahead of you with this. Prepare for some pain if my experience is anything to go by. My car is still under warranty. I've spoken to the Honda warranty people, been promised letters, phone calls from supervisors etc, but nothing. They are hopeless. Let me know how you get on.

[Boomin33]

Hi Noel, good know that you are in the process. I will push hard on this as I need a more immediate solution. I'll ping you once I know when Chiswick have sent over documentation. Will be interesting to see if there is a same point of contact at HondaUK.

I wonder if we could get them to make a final sweep of fixing the cars that need fixing and therefore drawing a line under it once and for all? I haven't heard of more than a few with this problem, right now, correct?

[Nick Graves]

Well, I'm back on the case and have booked my car into Chiswick Honda for the 28th of this month... and made them aware of the paint issue and my expectations of them to find an amicable solution.

They are going to get it into the bodyshop, take pics and approach Honda UK for me. As it's a 2003 with 32K miles. and only done 11,000 mi's since buying it from their showroom in 2007. I could have a chance. I figure this year is about the last chance to get Honda to consider helping out on these cars, if not already a couple years too late?

Getting this sorted as there's a high probability my car will be on PistonHeads by August, :(.. Although a fairly common fault, figure it will sell with less hassle when corrected. You practically need to stick your nose right up to the bottom of the wheel arch to even notice!

How many £1,000's do you recon I'll have to fork out to fix, if HondaUK blanks me?? I'm hoping they will, at least cover 50% of the cost.


--- OH Yeah... Here's a pic from the day we showed up for the NSX picture book shoot. ..right before Security showed up and 'postured' for my benefit.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o136/boomin33/IMAG0418.jpg

Gratuitous quote, because that is a beautiful car in the most beautiful colour.

Therein lies the rub; I bet it's an absolute b ugger to match! Personally, I'd rather have factory paint with some patina/defects than a colour/texture mismatch - hence why my buboes remain.

You may feel the converse, but it's defo something to bear in mind - especially if you ever sell.

[Papalazarou]

One of those times I'm glad my car is red.

Cheers,

James.

[AR]

Could it be some form of galvanic corrosion? Perhaps some cars had to have paintwork at the factory and they sanded through the chemical primer? It seems it only affects the LEV cars, but I could be wrong.

[Papalazarou]

It seems it only affects the LEV cars, but I could be wrong.

That's what I thought, but apparently not. However, both the blue cars I had suffered from corrosion. But not the 96 car. My current car has it. I guess I'll get it rectified during the winter. Like I said, just glad it's red and not LBB or IOP. However, although a pain to match, a good paintshop should be able to blend these colours to a satisfactory finish.

Cheers,

James.

[Boomin33]

OK.. now that it's pretty much established that all the newer cars have it to some degree... I wonder if we could go for some type of class-action to get Honda to either sort out our cars or give a one-off contribution towards sorting it out. i.e. they might be interested in getting current owners to accept compensation to sign a disclaimer against "this particular car" ever coming back to Honda with a corrosion complaint again?

*I'm not greedy and am fully prepared to contribute towards a re-spray of effected panels, and am obviously prepared to go at it alone if I have to. Not sure where they legally stand on what is certainly a manufacturers issue.


What do you guys think? a realistic approach??? personally think HondaUK would potentially be interested in paying out £600 - £1000 per panel affected to put a line under this once and for all? Or am I dreaming?

*The way I see it-
1. max per car right now is approximately 2 panels x ?? (what 20 genuine UK cars max)
2. time is not on our side. Our chance of success has decreased with each year that's passed. i.e. 2005-2008 would have been ideal! ...2011 is iffy.... 2012/2013=forget it.

[NoelWatson]

OK.. now that it's pretty much established that all the newer cars have it to some degree... I wonder if we could go for some type of class-action to get Honda to either sort out our cars or give a one-off contribution towards sorting it out. i.e. they might be interested in getting current owners to accept compensation to sign a disclaimer against "this particular car" ever coming back to Honda with a corrosion complaint again?

*I'm not greedy and am fully prepared to contribute towards a re-spray of effected panels, and am obviously prepared to go at it alone if I have to. Not sure where they legally stand on what is certainly a manufacturers issue.


What do you guys think? a realistic approach??? personally think HondaUK would potentially be interested in paying out £600 - £1000 per panel affected to put a line under this once and for all? Or am I dreaming?

*The way I see it-
1. max per car right now is approximately 2 panels x ?? (what 20 genuine UK cars max)
2. time is not on our side. Our chance of success has decreased with each year that's passed. i.e. 2005-2008 would have been ideal! ...2011 is iffy.... 2012/2013=forget it.

I wonder if I should've gone to Chiswick rather than Trident to get the photos taken - like you I bought the car in 2007 from Chiswick (when Ivan worked there), and paid an extra £1k for extended warranty - recently renewed. Trident haven't really pursued the cause as much as I would've hoped.

I also have the issue of corroding wheels - will probably get those done myself and concentrate on the paint.

If we combine our resources (assuming no other owners come forward), I'm sure we can sort something out.

[Papalazarou]

I'll happily take some pics and send them on. But as my car's not under warranty I wouldn't expect any help.

Cheers,

James.

[Boomin33]

You got a deal Noel. Let's see what they say to me when I take mine in. If they're cooperative, I'll bring it up with them re:yours also, and let them know that you'll be bringing yours in for photos also? That way They can go to HondaUK with "Houston, we've got a problem" with regards to cars they sold out of their showroom in 2007.

I wonder if Paul has any issue?? I think that would be about the last one they sold? *if it starts to look promising... we'll chuck James' in to the mix for good measure.

I'm with James though, see it as a long shot.... but, nothing ventured, nothing gained - as they say.

the pessimist in me suspects, at best, at some point there will be a frank conversation along the lines of "what are you after"... for me, 50%-65% off on bodyshop bill seems fair ( obviously I haven't seen the quote, yet!¬!

[Nick Graves]

OK.. now that it's pretty much established that all the newer cars have it to some degree... I wonder if we could go for some type of class-action to get Honda to either sort out our cars or give a one-off contribution towards sorting it out. i.e. they might be interested in getting current owners to accept compensation to sign a disclaimer against "this particular car" ever coming back to Honda with a corrosion complaint again?

*I'm not greedy and am fully prepared to contribute towards a re-spray of effected panels, and am obviously prepared to go at it alone if I have to. Not sure where they legally stand on what is certainly a manufacturers issue.


What do you guys think? a realistic approach??? personally think HondaUK would potentially be interested in paying out £600 - £1000 per panel affected to put a line under this once and for all? Or am I dreaming?

*The way I see it-
1. max per car right now is approximately 2 panels x ?? (what 20 genuine UK cars max)
2. time is not on our side. Our chance of success has decreased with each year that's passed. i.e. 2005-2008 would have been ideal! ...2011 is iffy.... 2012/2013=forget it.

Mine is (was) an everyday high-miler. So both front wings & both doors are affected. Cannot see HUK giving me four bag for a decade-old banger, though!

I'd rather they threw an unseized compliance pivot at me, but that's just me...

[Sebringbug]

what a horrible sounding subject to bring up on this site.

Anyway, I've got two little bubbled looking spots that have cropped up on the passenger side rear panel - lower part, near ground but on the main panel... not skirt :( one is just smaller than a 5 p coin and the other about half that size. If I were to pick at it,, certain could just flake it away to reveal aluminium...

If it weren't an Aluminium panel i'd say it looks exactly like rust/corrosion eating away under the paint.

Anyone ever seen this before?

It's going to be a real expensive remedy I figure.. as it is pretty much the largest panel on the car and it is "oh so easy to match" IOP...

This is exactly where I had the same problem.

I had a 6 month battle with Honda 3 years ago terminating in them refusing to discuss it any further...helpful

The cause is that the rubber/plastic stone protector is badly aligned on the rear of the wheel arch. The initial damage is a stone chip and water penetrating behind...lifting the paint and yes causing "corrosion"....Quote was over £1200.

Honda claim it is not covered as it is a stone chip and the warranty covers in to out corrosion not out to in...A summary of 6 months arguement !

It doesn't get any worse and at least it's honest...A respray then begs the question in the future has it been rear ended?

My caterham has a couple of similar bubbles caused where Ali and Steel joined...I covered them in Union Jack stickers!!!

[Nick Graves]

:D

I'm so not stickerbombing my NSX!

[JQD84983]

My old car now owned by James had a little showing. Hondas policy of no forward pointing paint being covered is bollocks in my opinion. Trouble is with aluminium it doesn't like air getting to it but hopefully should be easy to put right with a good body shop

Cheers

John

[Senninha]

I'll happily take some pics and send them on. But as my car's not under warranty I wouldn't expect any help.

Cheers,

James.

I'm happy to help the cause though I doubt they would be interested in my 98 :(

Let me know if you want photo's

regards, Paul

[unclebob]

I have a couple of bubbling spots on my 2001 T, rear arch and bonnet near the washer, id be happy to join any class action, its unbelievable that a car of this caliber has bubbling paint work only 10 years after its manufacture. Unacceptable if you ask me, especially when we consider that in the US NSX's were/are covered by a comprehensive anti corrosion perforation warranty for 12 years, its clear from the comments on here that as older nsx's are not affected then something has gone wrong in the manufacturing process and workmanship and this is clearly covered by the warranty right?

[NoelWatson]

You got a deal Noel. Let's see what they say to me when I take mine in. If they're cooperative, I'll bring it up with them re:yours also, and let them know that you'll be bringing yours in for photos also? That way They can go to HondaUK with "Houston, we've got a problem" with regards to cars they sold out of their showroom in 2007.

I wonder if Paul has any issue?? I think that would be about the last one they sold? *if it starts to look promising... we'll chuck James' in to the mix for good measure.

I'm with James though, see it as a long shot.... but, nothing ventured, nothing gained - as they say.

the pessimist in me suspects, at best, at some point there will be a frank conversation along the lines of "what are you after"... for me, 50%-65% off on bodyshop bill seems fair ( obviously I haven't seen the quote, yet!¬!


Rob,

Any updates?

Noel

[richmills]

Looks like my 2003 has the same small patches starting to show at the bottom corners of the rear wheel arches. I spoke to Bryan at Norton Way about this while I had the car there for its service last week and he took some photos for sending to Honda, I'll see what they say. Interestingly he said that he'd only come across one other car that had a similar problem.

Cheers, Rich.

[Nick Graves]

No - on the car.

That way, they can chase the colour-mismatch round n'round the car until you cannot see the blend so easily.

A wing sprayed separately might as well be NFR or sebring...

[WhyOne?]

The good news is, in my experience, Circuit Blue is pretty easy to get a spot-on match.

[Papalazarou]

For the best job, the body shop will probably have to blend the wing into the adjoining panels. In your case that means the nosecone and the front Lower part of the nosecone. They should remove the nose cone and lower to do this. If they do not. They are bodging it.
You may find on removal of the nose cone that the other wing is beginning to go underneath and also needs paint. That's pretty common.
By the look of it, they should be able to blend up through the wing and avoid painting the bonnet.
It depends largely on the quality of the paint match.
If the car has original paint throughout, I'd expect it to be going on the back of the rear wheel arches to the rear bumper too.

It's really no big deal and 99% of NA2 and 98 onwards autos will have gone somewhere. At least it's not rust;-)

Cheers.

[AR]

Well if Honda is paying for it, not big deal, but if you are then it can be a few quid. Another one to add to the buying checklist, specially when people are asking concourse condition prices for some cars!

[NoelWatson]

Well if Honda is paying for it, not big deal, but if you are then it can be a few quid. Another one to add to the buying checklist, specially when people are asking concourse condition prices for some cars!

Why would Honda pay?

[AR]

I would ask that too, but some members have managed to get Honda to pay for it.

[WhyOne?]

Why would Honda pay?
Goodwill for longterm Honda customers.