New Boots and Panties; Space Saver Wheel & Tyre

[duncan]

Part 1
Title, apologies to [the late] Ian Dury.
On inspection the un-used OEM space saver tyre on my car was that after 15 years distress and cracking was visible on the sidewalls and didn't really provide comfort that 50 miles could be covered whilst not exceeding 50 mph.
My understanding was that the wheel and tyre had to be replaced as one, with a HUK price of £1,500 + VAT for those of us in the cheap seats an alternative was sought.
From the US Porsche sites it was apparent that with effort tyres could be mounted/re-mounted [space saver tyres on steel rims from 944' and 911's to alloy 911 rims].
Vredestien list a range collapsible tyres under their name of 'Space Master' though they do not supply them for retail sales.
Vresdestien list the following sizes and uses; some of which I assumed were newer, more common and cheaper than HUK.

165/80-15 89 P Mercedes-Benz C-class sportcoupé
195/80-17 106 P Porsche Cayenne, VW Touareg
185/75-17 98 P Mercedes-Benz GLK
195/75-18 106 P Porsche Cayenne, VW Touareg, Audi Q5,Audi Q7, Mercedes-Benz R-class
165/70-16 92 P Mercedes-Benz C-class sportcoupé, Porsche 911 Carrera 4(S), Porsche 911 Turbo
145/70-17 92 P Mercedes-Benz SLK, Mercedes-Benz SLK AMG
185/65-19 104 P Mercedes-Benz M-class AMG, Mercedes-Benz R-class AMG
195/65-19 106 P Porsche Cayenne
145/60-20 95 P Ferrari 599 GTB Fiurano
185/60-17 93 P Porsche 911 Turbo, Porsche Cayman S, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz SL
205/60-17 99 P Audi A6 Allroad
175/55-18 95 P Mercedes-Benz SL Biturbo, Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG, Mercedes-Benz CLS 55 AMG, Maserati Quattroporte
175/55-19 95 P Audi A4 Allroad
175/50-19 97 P Mercedes-Benz SL 55 AMG

Additionally to the above, the 165/80-15 size is fitted to SLK's.
Mercedes have a 5 bolt 112mm PCD, which is not too far from Honda's 114.4 PCD.
Some of the Audi's will have a 112mm PCD

From Ebay for about £65 the following wheel & tyre was purchased, shown compared to the OEM deflated, inflated and compared to a full size rear wheel & tyre. The options were to have the tyre remounted on the OEM rim or to use the wheel and tyre complete.

See next post

[duncan]

Continued:
To 'adjust' the PCD I used an NSX brake rotor/disc to provide a drilling guide, the rotor is drilled with a PCD of 114.3mm and obviously fits over the wheel studs, using OEM Honda NSX wheel nuts and VW Golf Mk2 bolts an interference fit was established joining the two. I had originally expected to use standard M10 bolts but these proved to have too small a diameter and the rotor and wheel could not be aligned. After the fit was established; each bolt was removed and drilled at 11.5mm making sure that the disc rotor only acted as a guide, the bolt refitted and the next hole drilled. This was surprisingly easy with the drill bit preferring to remove a sliver from the alloy wheel.

[duncan]

Continued,
My expectation was that the taper seats on the wheel would need 'bluing' up and relieving with a Dremel or die grinder, this did not prove necessary as a trial fitment with 60 degree wheel nuts provided a suitable purchase and reshaped the seating.
The mounting of the wheel tapers is actually conical so the use the Honda OEM wheel nuts is required.
A spacer is necessary at both the front and back to clear the brake calipers: I've shown it with a generic 5 bolt one. The centre bore of the front hub is greater than the wheel, whilst the centre bore at the rear appears to mate with the wheel so if hub-centric spacers are your wish you're on your own.
The offset; particularly at the front is greater than OEM, but hey the tyre is that much narrower than the full size fitment and probably less than many aftermarket setups.

When inflated the Vredrestien tyre is a similar circumference to the OEM.

I happy with what I've done, I consider what I done is safe, the wheel is central and securely mounted; further I consider the new rubber to be 100% better than the 15 year old OEM. The wheel and tyre still only has a maximum rating of 50 miles and max 50 mph.

PLUS; THE MERCEDES WHEEL HAS A CERTAIN FAUX TYPE R APPEARANCE! It weighs considerably less than OEM so the cars overall performance should be enhanced.

For those who [at their own risk] may choose to follow, this particular wheel and tyre combination is listed from £25 up on ebay;

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mercedes-Benz-space-saver-wheel-/370487415058?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5642c55112#ht_500wt_922


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MERCEDES-SLK-170-SPACE-SAVER-SPARE-WHEEL-/230589700806?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item35b0379ac6#ht_500wt_1156



http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mercedes-15-inch-Space-Saver-Wheel-/150557006712?pt=UK_CarParts_Acc_Wheels_tyres_Rims_ Car_Wheels_ET&hash=item230de59b78#ht_840wt_907

A potentially more interesting option awaits those with big brakes, a 17" wheel, whilst it won't fit in the nose it will fit in the boot, its 112mm PCD and with an ET 25 which is pretty much spot on:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MERCEDES-17-SPACE-SAVER-WHEEL-TYRE-/360348517685?pt=UK_CarParts_Acc_Wheels_tyres_Trims _Car_Rims_ET&hash=item53e6720535#ht_500wt_1156

Also, this option, I don't know the PCD of the Audi AllRoads, but the standard A4 A6 range has I believe a 112mm PCD

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Audi-Allroad-Space-Saver-Spare-Wheel-2-5-tdi-2003-/110654835253?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item19c38aca35#ht_1015wt_907

[Silver Surfer]

That looks really good Duncan.
Do you need to inflate the wheel more for the rear fitment compare to the front due to the different rolling circumference?
PM me a price for making me one as well...;)

SS

[AR]

It sounds like a fantastic solution for those with bad tyres.

The only thing that would worry me is the way an insurance company might try to use it as a way to not pay in case of a crash.

Cheers,

AR

[duncan]

SS asked "Do you need to inflate the wheel more for the rear fitment compare to the front due to the different rolling circumference?". I had wondered that; however I think the pressure difference is more for ride and handling.
Front
OEM spare at 1.8bar; circumference = 1978mm,
my OEM rim with 225/45-16 Tyre[4mm tread]=1915mm,
current fitment 205/50-16[7mm tread] = 1928mm,
Rear
OEM spare at 2.3bar; circumference = 1986mm,
my OEM rim with 255/40-17 Tyre[1.6mm tread] = 2004mm,
current fitment 235/45-17[7mm tread] = 2013mm,
so the OEM spare is a 'one size [dos'n't quite] fit all.

The Mercedes spare when inflated to 2.5bar is 1989mm.

Weight wise; the OEM spare is 13.5kg the MB spare is 11.8kg.
The spacer I needed to clear the front brakes is 10mm.

[britlude]

so basically get MB wheel, redrill/get redrilled to 4 1/2" pcd, add spacer for calipers, basically get a new tyre and save a fortune.... I'm in!!!

been worried about the condition of the spare for a while!!

......might even spray it orange!!!



edit.. nissan 300zx space saver spare looks a possibility, 114.3 5 stud pcd too.... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Space-saver-wheel-/180632077505?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2a0e82c4c1

[duncan]

'get MB wheel, redrill/get redrilled to 4 1/2" pcd, add spacer for calipers, basically get a new tyre and save a fortune'
Spot on

[Senninha]

Great research and ingenuity Duncan ...

Any idea if it would also work for 98+ OEM brakes?

[AR]

Guys no spare no problem, not Honda spare DIY drilled OK???

[britlude]

I work for a firm that makes racing car wheels, so I know redrill 112 to 114 on cnc mill, no problem.

or get a general engineering shop to redrill, no problem

OR hubcentric rings and 'wobbly nuts' designed to correct 2mm pcd difference, no problem,

OR DIY drill a space saver 'get you home spare' that you are not going to drive fast/corner hard on because it's a stupid skinny spare that is only there to hold up the corner of the car and get you to somewhere safe, no problem!:D

on a side note, i have noticed that there's no hubcentric ring for fitting the Honda spare onto the front hubs where the centre location is smaller and thus it's only located by the wheel studs........ OMG!!!:rolleyes: