Porsche 996 swap for an NSX! good idea?

[peter300zx]

Hi Guys,

im the owner of an absolutely immaculate 1998 Porsche 996 carrera 2 which i have spent fortunes on in the last 3 years (18-19k) with receipts to prove. I was thinking of maybe swapping it for an NSX of similar value. My car cost me 18k in 2008 and i have spent the same again bringing up to a ridiculous condition with all the trimmings. I know i will never get the money back (maybe in the year 2030! lol) but was wandering what you guys think of the idea and if someone was maybe interested.
Im not 100% that i want to do it but have been thinking about it for sometime now. Any comments are appreciated.

Regards

Peter

[nakamichi]

Hi Pete
We are obviously going to be somewhat biased on here !
I would have thought your best option before making a decision is to have a drive in an NSX and see what you think.
No one can really tell you what to do as it is such a personal choice based on many factors.

[AR]

I think that if you go from your car to a stock 3.0 you will feel really slow, the 3.2s are more evenly matched.

The problem is that 996s are on the way down and NSX, even ropey ones are climbing.

Perhaps find someone who is bored of the NSX or needs the occasional extra seats and you both will benefit.

[goldnsx]

Just wondering why you nickname is peter300zx and you're talking about a 996.

[peter300zx]

Just wondering why you nickname is peter300zx and you're talking about a 996.

Hi there,

I used to have one of the best 300zx's in the country and had a feature in 'japanese performance magazine' way way back in around 2002. I had a bit of an obsession with the nissan 300zx and spent an utter fortune on it. That became my username on so many things that now i just keep it so can remember them always.
My 996 can be found on www.911uk.com under my name 'peter winter'.

peter

[havoc]

Out of interest, why/how have you spent so much on the car? It looks reasonably standard on that profile, bar wheels/bodykit and exhaust.

[AR]

Out of interest, why/how have you spent so much on the car? It looks reasonably standard on that profile, bar wheels/bodykit and exhaust.

It doesn't take much to spend 18K when looking after a car, even 20 or 30 k fly out the window easily. :)

[nobby]

hi mate

as per previous post, have you actually driven an NSX yet?

in saying that you wont be disappointed.

as stated wrong forum to put a swap out re a Porsche for an NSX!!! :)

good luck in your search, and hopefully welcome you aboard good and proper IF you get an NSX

[havoc]

It doesn't take much to spend 18K when looking after a car, even 20 or 30 k fly out the window easily. :)

Really???

OK, I've only owned mine for 18 months, but it's older and leggier than that Porker and I've only spent ~£4k on repairs and refurb. Add-in the ~£3-4k of cosmetic work that the previous owner did and maybe another £2-4k of work that will need doing over the next few years and you're still well under that level.

That said, I suppose you could add a few of £k for servicing and tyres over a few years, and then another £??? on mods and non-essential 'trimmings' and get to that sort of level. Maybe I'm a cheap b'gger but I'd never consider spending that much on a car...doesn't seem to make sense.

[Dave J]

Really???

OK, I've only owned mine for 18 months, but it's older and leggier than that Porker and I've only spent ~£4k on repairs and refurb. Add-in the ~£3-4k of cosmetic work that the previous owner did and maybe another £2-4k of work that will need doing over the next few years and you're still well under that level.

That said, I suppose you could add a few of £k for servicing and tyres over a few years, and then another £??? on mods and non-essential 'trimmings' and get to that sort of level. Maybe I'm a cheap b'gger but I'd never consider spending that much on a car...doesn't seem to make sense.

Although i personally agree with your estimated spend level you obviously haven't met Ari!! I bought his last NSX and i'd say he's spent well over £30k on it and i must say i'm pretty pleased with it :o) I couldn't bring myself to spend what some people do actually spend on their cars but i suppose you can't take it with you!
Dave.

[Justin]

Hi Guys,

im the owner of an absolutely immaculate 1998 Porsche 996 carrera 2 which i have spent fortunes on in the last 3 years (18-19k) with receipts to prove. I was thinking of maybe swapping it for an NSX of similar value. My car cost me 18k in 2008 and i have spent the same again bringing up to a ridiculous condition with all the trimmings. I know i will never get the money back (maybe in the year 2030! lol) but was wandering what you guys think of the idea and if someone was maybe interested.
Im not 100% that i want to do it but have been thinking about it for sometime now. Any comments are appreciated.

Regards

Peter

Hi Peter

I think you need an nsx. Your membership of this forum predates your 996 ownership by 2 years, so there's obviously an itch there that has yet to be scratched. My advice would be to take what you can for the 996 and then buy an NSX in a separate transaction. This way you can crystallise the losses on the dropping 996 now and have a significantly wider field of quality NSXs (I don't imagine many of the good ones will be clammouring for a swap) to choose from once you have the garage space :)

Ary's right - the 2 cars' values are going in opposite directions. Like houses, this only matters if you need to change. You apparently do, so I'd get going if I were you!

Best of Luck!

[Silver Surfer]

what he said..........best of luck.

+1

ss

[AR]

Really???

Maybe I'm a cheap b'gger but I'd never consider spending that much on a car...doesn't seem to make sense.

If it was about making sense we will all drive cars under 1 L.

With regards to your car and spending the money, your car is a basically stock.

If you were to add an 02 conversion with plenty of R bits, wheels, supercharger, etc, you will reach that 18 in no time at all. :)

[Geraint]

It doesn't take much to spend 18K when looking after a car, even 20 or 30 k fly out the window easily. :)


With regards to your car and spending the money, your car is a basically stock.

If you were to add an 02 conversion with plenty of R bits, wheels, supercharger, etc, you will reach that 18 in no time at all. :)

I agree with havoc on this. Adding all those extras is fine if that's your bag, but it isn't the same thing as 'looking after a car' imho.

A car that's had that much spent on it would be more of a turn-off for me than a selling point, especially if a lot of it was non-standard and/or cosmetic stuff.

I'll keep my bog standard NSX thanks :)

Back on topic, I'd agree with the suggestion to sell the 996 and buy a NSX as separate transactions, as I think the chances of finding someone prepared to swap and then both of you getting to an acceptable deal seems remote to me.

Good luck with it whatever you decide to do :)

[AR]

I agree with havoc on this. Adding all those extras is fine if that's your bag, but it isn't the same thing as 'looking after a car' imho.

A car that's had that much spent on it would be more of a turn-off for me than a selling point, especially if a lot of it was non-standard and/or cosmetic stuff.

I'll keep my bog standard NSX thanks :)

Bog standard the 3.0s and those of the Targa reinforcement in particulars are some of the slowest NSX, even with the shorter gears.

ALL 3.0 NSX benefit from "headers" / tubular manifolds.

ALL NSX benefit from a freer flowing exhaust.

That is the least any 3.0 should have done on top or regular maintenance.

[Geraint]

Thanks for the advice.

I really don't care if my heavy, underpowered, over-geared 3.0T is the slowest NSX in the world, I still love it for what it is.

If it would benefit from some aftermarket parts, well fine, but that doesn't mean I feel compelled to fit them.

Equally I'm not knocking those who do - each to their own :)

My personal preference would be for a standard, well-maintained car rather than someone else's project.

[havoc]

My personal preference would be for a standard, well-maintained car rather than someone else's project.

Broadly agree.

In Ary's defence someone picking up a "good" project can get an absolute bargain, IF it's their thing. For a lot of us, it's not.

Re: the NSX - agree with Ary on ex. manifolds (still considering this), and there are a few other areas where you can 'enhance' without taking it away from 'generally stock'. I'd say it depends on the car - a mint, low-mile, good-provenance car should IMHO be kept fully stock as those are the ones which will become collectors items. A leggier one which has changed hands a few times (like mine) can be 'tweaked' without affecting value as a lot of buyers will be buying it to use, not to invest in.

[peter300zx]

I didnt want to do this as it brings a tear to the eye!! By the way, thanks to everyone who have so far contributed to my original post!
I started off with a porsche 928 gts and part ex'd it for the 996 in 2008. My 928 was immaculate and the 996 needed some tlc but i took it on.
I like my cars standard unless the mods are to the highest of standards so the first thing i did was give the car to auto audio of park royal to have the clifford alarm removed and the standard one reactivated along with stripping out all of the glue gunned bmw speakers that were in place of the standard items???? dont ask! There was a phone craddle screwed into the leather dash which i had removed and re-leathered, there was also a road angel wire sticking out from the dash and an electronic tax disc holder all which were removed!! I had a state of the art audio installation done and had the proper alarm working and had a quality HID installation done, and a light window tint. When i picked up the car i was given a box that weighed around 7kgs full of crap that had been stripped out of the car!! Total cost: £3900
new coolant tank plus sensor and coolant refil: £430.00
locking nuts and rear badge: £95.00
new radiator, inner ball joint and steering rack: £1600
new oxygen sensors: £412.00
new battery: £75.00
chip repar: £70.00
alloy gt3 footrest: £175.00 (i can explain)
gearbox oil change: £233.00
kw variant 3 suspension: £1500.00
suspension fitted (wrongly!) and geo plus new door rubber and new undertrays: £830.00
michelin pilot sport 2 tyres:£820.00
wipers:£32.00
suspension refitted and proper geometry done by 'center gravity' the best for suspension tuning plus new top mount bearings: £1100.00
new bushes and track control arms: £800.00
lower track control arms and drop links replaced: £840.00
service 2009: £430
new brake discs and pads all round (porsche items) plus caliper refurb and repaint plus electric window motor fix and full service with cambelt change 2010: £2900.00
Wheel refurb (split rim): £600

I havent mentioned aaaallllllll the little bits like oils and bits of interior trim and insurance etc because i'd be here all night writing each individual receipt down but all that adds up to about 13k but i know theres more.
One thing that scares me about buying the nsx is that i know that i would buy wheels, an air filter and exhaust which will straight away cost about 5k. Theres no way that you can leave a 300zx standard but the nsx is pretty close to perfection in standard form i reckon.

[Geraint]

@havoc: Agreed, and no need for a 'defence' as I wasn't attacking anyone :)

Just to make myself clear: I'm not against a few well-chosen mods, in fact I may well do the exhaust thing myself as the standard parts look very restrictive. I was just offering the view that spending that much money and modifying a car to that extent is a choice rather than a necessity.

[AR]

My personal preference would be for a standard, well-maintained car rather than someone else's project.

When you buy second hand, you are buying someone elses project. :)

[Geraint]

When you buy second hand, you are buying someone elses project. :)
I suppose that's one way of looking at it... Unfortunately, when it comes to the NSX, I had no choice in that respect. And in general I'd prefer a 'project' built to Honda's original design.

[AR]

And in general I'd prefer a 'project' built to Honda's original design.

Which was constrained by several factors and had several in built fails such as... CCU, the Bose System, ABS, Coils getting rusted, Harmonic Balancer, Window regulators, cracked dash trim, receding upper windscreen mouldings, breaking door handles, and on and on.

In many respects changing the HONDA original parts for aftermarket or revision parts makes the early NSX a better car.

[Geraint]

OK, so first you tell me my car is slow, then you tell me it has serious design flaws...? :( :laugh:

I knew about all of these 'flaws' before I bought the car, but I still bought it - and not with the intention of spending £££ trying to make it into something else. I don't want to change the sound system, for example, or the air con (to what?), or make it look like an 02+ :no:

There is more than one option for dealing with a 'flaw': one can spend money trying to address it, or one can simply choose to live with it. Sometimes, the latter approach is not so bad.

Either way, one should make the choice, and then be happy with it. :)



Back on topic, then...

[AR]

Geraint,

Nobody has come to deny that a stock 3.0 is slow, the bose system and ccu will self destroy.

Those are facts and any prospective owner should be aware of them and remedy them.

If you let your CCU get too far gone even Kaz, Sudesh or Brian K might not be able to get it going, same with the Bose amps.

As for the Exhaust, what do you think most owners are going to do when UK weather and hot and cold cycles destroy the OEM one? Pay a couple of grand for the 46 lbs OEM one?

Please don't keep going that the NSX is perfect, because it is not, I have had three including one R and a fourth one is not out the cards yet.

[214nsx]

I had a 996 turbo and recently brought an nsx 3.2 man., I personal prefer the nsx the ride is perfect , the ride on 996 turbo is too hard,

[nobby]

your the guy who bought the 3.2 from Lowes Garage re my post in general discussion area!

:)


I had a 996 turbo and recently brought an nsx 3.2 man., I personal prefer the nsx the ride is perfect , the ride on 996 turbo is too hard,

[nobby]

Hi Ary

will you be designing any headers/manifolds to go with your exhaust?

just wondering?


Bog standard the 3.0s and those of the Targa reinforcement in particulars are some of the slowest NSX, even with the shorter gears.

ALL 3.0 NSX benefit from "headers" / tubular manifolds.

ALL NSX benefit from a freer flowing exhaust.

That is the least any 3.0 should have done on top or regular maintenance.

[Justin]

Pretty heated debate! Like anything, it's all down to individual preference and everyone has the right to do as they will to their car...

If we were all the same it would be a dull ol world! That said, there is definitely a "wrong" side of tasteful that Japanese car mods seem particularly prone to. I prefer stock, in appearance at least, where possible :)

[Geraint]

Nobody has come to deny that a stock 3.0 is slow, the bose system and ccu will self destroy.

Those are facts and any prospective owner should be aware of them and remedy them.
Well, I would suggest that 'slow' is a relative term - this may be your opinion, but it is not a 'fact'. I'm aware of the weaknesses with the CCU & Bose amps...


If you let your CCU get too far gone even Kaz, Sudesh or Brian K might not be able to get it going, same with the Bose amps.
It's not my plan to 'let them go' - they seem to work OK at the moment, I'll get them checked out and serviced in due course as time & funds permit. I'd call this maintenance - where did I say I wasn't going to maintain my car?


As for the Exhaust, what do you think most owners are going to do when UK weather and hot and cold cycles destroy the OEM one? Pay a couple of grand for the 46 lbs OEM one?
I don't know about 'most owners'. As I've said above, I may consider an aftermarket system when my OEM one dies, or possibly before. I don't understand your point here - are you trying to sell me an exhaust?


Please don't keep going that the NSX is perfect, because it is not, I have had three including one R and a fourth one is not out the cards yet.
I have not said, even once, that the NSX is perfect - let alone 'keep going'. I have said that I love mine as it is, will accept certain 'flaws', and don't feel the need to spend £££ making it into something different, as you apparently did.

I simply expressed an opinion that one is unlikely to 'need' to spend £18k or '£20-30k' in a short time looking after a car like this. Unless, that is, one is very unlucky and experiences a series of major failures.

It's only my opinion, I'm entitled to hold it, just as you're entitled to hold a different one. Now, please stop mis-quoting me, and show some respect for an alternative point of view. :)

[Geraint]

Pretty heated debate! Like anything, it's all down to individual preference and everyone has the right to do as they will to their car...

Nah, pretty cool here. Your point about choice is the one I'm trying to make, but perhaps I'm doing it less succinctly than you just did :)

[nobby]

PHEW! :)

As an owner of a 3.0 variant and reading information like on Kaz's Health Check threads and talking to my 'master' Sudesh, the car is not without its faults and things like manifolds etc appear to be in great need of replacement if you are to get the benefits of the car, so in that respect Ary is right.

I would hate to think i would need to spend 18-20k to put any car right/ or modify let alone an NSX so take your point here to Geraint; but I will admit I have had to sort out a number of issues on my car along with doing some tasteful mods (if i do say so myself! :)) it has taken a fair chunk out of my savings to get the car the way I want it and that includes the 'maintenence type' work - CCU, crankshaft pulley etc.

but as Justin points out on the modding side of things its all down to personal choice ... One mans poison is another mans fine wine ...

[AR]

Geraint, you are misquoting me. All I said was:


It doesn't take much to spend 18K when looking after a car, even 20 or 30 k fly out the window easily. :)

Looking after means different things to different people, some of us like not to cut corners and replace things before they break etc.

As far as exhaust selling, did I mentioned my exhaust at all before you did?
This is an uncalled for below the belt attack because you did not have anything else to say counter my exhaust statement.

As far as slow, see if you can get a drive or ride in a Forced Induction NSX, then come back and tell me that the stock 3.0 is a fast car.

I got no beef with you, but don't put my character in question about trying to sell the exhaust on this thread.

That is not "doing it less succinctly than" others, that is just trying to defame me. I think you need more than 28 posts for that!

AR

[Geraint]

As far as exhaust selling, did I mentioned my exhaust at all before you did?

Well, you said this:


ALL 3.0 NSX benefit from "headers" / tubular manifolds.

ALL NSX benefit from a freer flowing exhaust.

That is the least any 3.0 should have done on top or regular maintenance.

You seemed to be saying that all NSX owners should replace their exhausts with aftermarket systems, as a bare minimum. Well, maybe some people don't want an aftermarket system.


This is an uncalled for below the belt attack because you did not have anything else to say counter my exhaust statement.
Er, you were the one that brought up the exhaust, not me. I have said I may be interested in an aftermarket system, so that point was moot anyway. I didn’t understand why you kept coming back to it, when I had basically agreed with your point that the standard system is restrictive...


As far as slow, see if you can get a drive or ride in a Forced Induction NSX, then come back and tell me that the stock 3.0 is a fast car.
I’m sure a FI NSX would be faster than a stock 3.0. I’ve driven many faster cars than my stock 3.0. ‘Slow’ remains a relative concept, and I find the performance of my 3.0 acceptable for what it is. You can call it slow if you like, you don't have to drive it.


I got no beef with you, but don't put my character in question about trying to sell the exhaust on this thread.
Really? Well, I’ve got no beef with you either. I merely asked you a question, because I didn’t understand your repeated references to exhausts. I didn’t ‘put your character in question’ in any way. What have I said in this thread that is in any way personal?


That is not "doing it less succinctly than" others, that is just trying to defame me. I think you need more than 28 posts for that!
I'm not trying to defame you, I've never even met you. And what has my post count got to do with anything? Are you suggesting I should just agree with you until I have increased it? What do you think is an acceptable post count before someone can express their opinion?


I really think this thread should be locked.

[AR]

Don't go asking about locking threads without letting me have my say.

Be man enough to admit that you said:


I don't know about 'most owners'. As I've said above, I may consider an aftermarket system when my OEM one dies, or possibly before. I don't understand your point here - are you trying to sell me an exhaust?


You know that I do sell an exhaust system for the NSX, it does not take a rocket scientist realize what you were trying to say.

[AR]

I'm not trying to defame you, I've never even met you. And what has my post count got to do with anything? Are you suggesting I should just agree with you until I have increased it? What do you think is an acceptable post count before someone can express their opinion?

All I am saying is that, that you don't know me.

The post count I am using as guide of how much you have contributed to this forum. I have help out a lot of members without expecting a thank you. Sometimes without receiving one either.

I will not have you accussing me of trying to use this thread to try to sell you my exhaust.

[Geraint]

I suggested the thread should be locked because it now consists of three pages of off-topic discussion, which has little to do with Peter's question about swapping his 996. Maybe a thread split would be better so that we can continue this discussion somewhere else, and others can offer Peter some further advice.

I don't understand what you mean by 'admit'. What I have said is here for everyone to see - what is there for me to admit to, that is not already public?

You seem to have got tetchy about a genuine question I asked you. Once again, I don't understand. I am sorry if I've caused offence, it was not my intention to do so.

Let's leave this now. If you're coming to Japfest, then perhaps we can continue the discussion face to face - then perhaps we might understand each other's points of view rather better than we have managed to do here.

[AR]

Well I was trying to point out some NSX's weakness to the prospective owners when you did not like my comments and took it as an attack on your car at witch point you got "tetchy"

My point is that YOU can't say that the reason I say that the NSX needs an aftermarket exhaust is because I sell one of those.

I am happy to leave it NOW and let's agree to disagree.

Shame I can't ever make it to Japfest and meet more forum mebers face to face as I am sure it would stop all future missunderstandings.

[214nsx]

yes rowes is a honda dealer by theway.the car belong to that dealer owner.

[peter300zx]

Guys,

You see! This is the problem with the 996! Anywhere I take it, there's a price to pay! Lol. Look what's it's caused here! I'm so sorry fellas that it's caused a feud. We're all the same at the end of the day with the same interests but thankfully blessed with different opinions! I hope any hard feelings can relax.
Did anyone ever see the option motorsport NSX drift car a few years back? It was purple with slightly flared arches, tein suspension, dc exhaust and headers, arc cold air intake and had an adjusted gear ratio by os giken. It also had a large brembo caliper and disc setup, the same items a Ferrari f50 has! It was a 3.0 and looked and sounded amazing. The owner said that adjusting the gear ratios makes a huge difference in performance! Has anyone done this?

Peter

[Geraint]

Don't worry Peter, I for one am perfectly relaxed and have absolutely no hard feelings towards anyone here :)

As has been said somewhere above, get yourself a drive in one & see what you think. Or maybe someone local to you could offer a p-ride - I for one would be happy to help in that respect if you're anywhere near Bristol.

[goldnsx]

The owner said that adjusting the gear ratios makes a huge difference in performance! Has anyone done this?
Peter
Yes, the owner is right. A 3.0 has very long gears which make 'feel' the early cars quite slow. I've installed the shorter gears (which the Japanese have) and the car 'feels' much faster. It isn't a breakthrough in acceleration times (that's why I stressed 'feel') altough it's a little bit faster but it's simply much more fun to drive. I did this mod back in 2005.

An early NSX is a classic car IMO, not the fastest one but nice to drive on weekends. If you want to drive an NSX fast 97+ are the ones for you. You get shorter gears, 6-speed, bigger brakes, a little bit more engine power etc. Of course, you can upgrade an early NSX with the mods to bring it up to the level of an 97+, that's what I had to do as there are not many 97+ cars here in Switzerland. The upgrade was around EUR 6k or so (don't fix my on that). But if you can find a good 97+ you have simply all the mods already in the car and you leave the classic cars as it is. :) It's up to you what you're looking for.

IMO - and no offense - a 996 is a good and capable car but the later 911 models are more attractive. For the NSX there are fewer options: 91-96 or 97+ plus some unpayable cars from Japan Type-S or Type-R. There won't be a newer version all the rest has to compare it to. That's nice about the NSX.

[AR]

Peter don't worry we all just get along here. :)

[havoc]

A 3.0 has very long gears which make 'feel' the early cars quite slow. I've installed the shorter gears (which the Japanese have) and the car 'feels' much faster.

I believe the UK cars got the JDM gearing from 1995 until they introduced the 3.2 in late-97.

I also thought that is was just a shorter 1st and 2nd gear (which were strangely very-long on the early cars)...although I stand to be corrected on that point.