Time for a change

[forumadmin]

So, the Audi RS4 turned out to be my shortest ownership of any car. I hate changing cars normally, but the RS4 had to go before I spent some huge amount of money on it.

Time for a change, and working my way through the automotive alphabet, has me at B for BMW this time. For the first time in my life, I have a car which is still a current model. I have to say it's awesome. The noise of the V8 is unbelievable, it also has the 7 speed DCT gearbox, and electronic dampers. I have to admit cars have moved on some way from the NSX.

The day after picking it up, I took a drive over the mountains to Italy. Over the Simplon pass, MarkC knows it well. Wanted to come back via the St Gotthardo pass, but it is still closed.

It still has its winter wheels on, I collect the summer ones next week.

[Silver Surfer]

Life must be treating you well...;):)
No more 4 wheel drive on the snow then...now you will need a bike rack.
Is this your fastest ever car you have owned?

SS

[forumadmin]

I already have a bike rack, two in fact for the roof bars. All I need now is the fitting kit for the BMW. Yes, not too sure what is going to happen in the winter. Perhaps I will get something else by then. I'd say this is the quickest car I have had, though not been on a track with it (yet). I can't get enough of the automatic throttle blipping it does on downshifts, makes me sound like a pro!

It has BMW 'Performance' seats, which are Recaro sports seats. Looking now for a half roll cage/harness bar.

[m666 edd]

Looks smart and a nice choice of colour. The rear end looks good.

Automatic blipping - you seemed pretty good at manually doing that in the nsx!

What's the model name exactly?

[Silver Surfer]

What's the model name exactly?

err...M3 coupe....E92

[Senninha]

Mmmm, RS4 and now an M3 ... I'm guessing fuel prices haven't gone silly over there as they have here then?

I always think the M3 looks good when Tiff is drifting it but when on the road it seems to loose its appeal here in the UK. Given the traffic conditions here I really dont see the point over a 330d variant .... (and now awaits a barrage of anti-weasal comments)

Have fun and enjoy it ...

[havoc]

Very nice - is that the "Frozen Grey" that evo have been going on about?

Paul - surely an NSX owner of all people would realise that 8,000+rpm has a point all of it's own?!?

[forumadmin]

No, the Frozen Grey is a matte finish. I don't know what mine is, some kind of grey I guess.

I agree with your comment from Paul. Honestly coming from an NSX owner, suggesting a diesel??

[Senninha]

I know, but hten I see cars like this as an everyday car not something special. I still have the luxury of the NSX and put all 8,000 of its RPM to good use yesterday several times!

I see a 3 series (or anyof these types of car) as commuter transport, and for that I want 600+ miles form a tank and despite all the advancements in petrol engines, they still dont offer this. My daily, a 220cdi C class fits the bill. I look at the C63 and think I would like one but then think thats twice as many stops for fuel during my 30k miles of commuting.

If I didn't own the NSX then maybe I'd be like Kevin and think differently, but for now, and for me, an M3 holds as much appeal as any other rep mobile ....

[gumball]

Don't the new M3s rev to 9k or similar? I don't 'get' BMWs myself as they leave me a bit cold, but I can see the attraction for others as they can do it all very easily.

[havoc]

Haven't driven an E92 but have driven an E46 M3, and allowing for the fact that it's an all-rounder, it's genuinely pretty close to the NSX for fun/involvement...just lacks the "sense of occasion" bit. For someone not doing big miles I see little point in even modern diesels - sure that torque makes driving pretty effortless, but you lose so much fun and responsiveness, and gearboxes are there to be used!

[AR]

I think it looks really nice and is a true sports car. You are lucky to have such roads to explore. I agree with Paul that diesels are coming a long way.

[nobby]

was very impressed with my mate's Merc E class 350 CDI coupe ... the DIEsel engine was well matched with the car and it was a good drive. but would i pay over 40k for one? No way!

i still believe that modern cars are all way to samey and leave me a bit cold in all honesty ... think the purchase of the NSX has really had an impact on me in wanting a real driver's car and i dont think you get this in modern cars as much as you used to

[markc]

Only just seen this thread after a week away in France (not a million miles from you Kevin).

Excellent choice, I really like the E92 M3 and it does make a spectacular noise :) I think they limit at 8,250rpm like Audi's 4.2V8 in the old RS4 and R8?

I'm sorry weasel boys, your oil burners don't even start to compete once noise, and response enter the equation. Even turbo petrol cars lack the "specialness" of a screaming multi-cylinder NA motor, the new M1 being a case in point :(

I actually slightly prefer the looks of the saloon version of the E93 M3, a chap near me has a light metallic blue one and it looks absolutely superb :cool:

Cheers

Mark

[NoelWatson]

was very impressed with my mate's Merc E class 350 CDI coupe ... the DIEsel engine was well matched with the car and it was a good drive. but would i pay over 40k for one? No way!



I drove the E350 convertible (don't ask!) and thought it was a death trap. Step off from standstill was non existent.

[Senninha]

Boys, boys, boys ....

I think it must be the noise of those high revving V8's that would explain why you're not hearing me.

I am NOT saying I dont like these engines, far from it.
I am Not saying that a diesel, no matter how good and who makes it can replace the response/sound of performance petrol engines.

The point I was making is that when you're pounding the miles as I do, a relaxing diesel auto IS currently the way to go. Very few of us here have the NSX as an only car so stepping out of the daily commuter into the NSX is still a special experience to be savoured.

I am watching with interest BMW engine developments because if any one is likely to crack the 'spark plug less' petrol engine and truly release the economy of petrol engines then its likely to be these guys. I'd be happy to step back into a ~2 litre petrol with min 5 speed auto that would churn out 600+ miles from a single tank, but as yet they are still >150 miles behind the diesel.

BTW, the reason my next Le Mans will be the hostoric is to hear proper racing engines rather than the numb whoosh of the current diesel front runners ....

MY other point was that when you cover the miles I and several others do, you loose count of coupe M3's very quickly to the point that they are more common than an Accord saloon .....


I drove the E350 convertible (don't ask!) and thought it was a death trap. Step off from standstill was non existent.

Sounds more like driver error than manufacturer issue. If you cant control an E class than stick well clear of the shorter wheel base C class as you wont stand a chance ....

regards,

[NoelWatson]

Sounds more like driver error than manufacturer issue. If you cant control an E class than stick well clear of the shorter wheel base C class as you wont stand a chance ....

regards,

Not sure what turbo lag/boost threshold/software mapping has to do with wheelbase, but I'm all ears.

[NoelWatson]

I am watching with interest BMW engine developments because if any one is likely to crack the 'spark plug less' petrol engine and truly release the economy of petrol engines then its likely to be these guys. I'd be happy to step back into a ~2 litre petrol with min 5 speed auto that would churn out 600+ miles from a single tank, but as yet they are still >150 miles behind the diesel.



I must admit I haven't been following sparkless petrol (assume you are talking about HCCI), but even with current (especially larger) petrol, the efficiency advances brought about by direct injection and/or elimination of throttle butterfly mean petrol is only around 10-15% less efficient


For example, new Merc

http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/RoadTestsData/Mercedes-Benz-CLS-350-BlueEfficiency/256495/

and the discontinued 272bhp N53 in the BMW

[markc]

I must admit I haven't been following sparkless petrol (assume you are talking about HCCI), but even with current (especially larger) petrol, the efficiency advances brought about by direct injection and/or elimination of throttle butterfly mean petrol is only around 10-15% less efficient...

As I understand it an HCCI engine is going to "feel" similar to a turbo diesel i.e. soft throttle response and narrow power band, so other than more being economical it's not really an answer to the diesel problem. It'll make a good range extender engine for hybrids if that's your thing.

Fundamentally diesel fuel contains about 15% more energy than petrol so that's about half the economy gain, the other half is down to the more efficient combustion process. Even with DI and no throttle butterfly/s, diesel retains an efficiency advantage over petrol. Petrols current price advantage wins back some of the efficiency savings over diesel so if you're purely looking for lowest possible running costs (you cheapskates :)) the decision is a complex one that depends on the particular model you buy, how much you spend, how long you're going to keep it, your annual mileage etc etc.

If you want/need the economy of a weasel of course they make sense, at least with the current taxation laws, but motorway mile muncher or not I just don't like the way they drive.

Cheers

Mark

[NoelWatson]

As I understand it an HCCI engine is going to "feel" similar to a turbo diesel i.e. soft throttle response and narrow power band, so other than more being economical it's not really an answer to the diesel problem. It'll make a good range extender engine for hybrids if that's your thing.

Fundamentally diesel fuel contains about 15% more energy than petrol so that's about half the economy gain, the other half is down to the more efficient combustion process. Even with DI and no throttle butterfly/s, diesel retains an efficiency advantage over petrol. Petrols current price advantage wins back some of the efficiency savings over diesel so if you're purely looking for lowest possible running costs (you cheapskates :)) the decision is a complex one that depends on the particular model you buy, how much you spend, how long you're going to keep it, your annual mileage etc etc.

If you want/need the economy of a weasel of course they make sense, at least with the current taxation laws, but motorway mile muncher or not I just don't like the way they drive.

Cheers

Mark



As a second hand buy (ignoring relability issues), those big petrols must make a decent buy as people shun them and depress values - our 330i is probably worth about 4p now!

[havoc]

As a second hand buy (ignoring relability issues), those big petrols must make a decent buy as people shun them and depress values - our 330i is probably worth about 4p now!


Tell you what - I'll give you 10p if you deliver it to my house! ;)


(More seriously, yes - look at RX8 prices, look at 550i prices, etc. etc. - horrific depreciation on what are fundamentally very good cars. Anything which real-world is c.20mpg or less is virtually unwanted in the trade unless it's got a supercar badge...)

[forumadmin]

Only just seen this thread after a week away in France (not a million miles from you Kevin).

Excellent choice, I really like the E92 M3 and it does make a spectacular noise :) I think they limit at 8,250rpm like Audi's 4.2V8 in the old RS4 and R8?

I'm sorry weasel boys, your oil burners don't even start to compete once noise, and response enter the equation. Even turbo petrol cars lack the "specialness" of a screaming multi-cylinder NA motor, the new M1 being a case in point :(

I actually slightly prefer the looks of the saloon version of the E93 M3, a chap near me has a light metallic blue one and it looks absolutely superb :cool:

Cheers

Mark

You should let me know when you are in Dijon. As I am now living in Lausanne again, its only two hours away.

[forumadmin]

Tell you what - I'll give you 10p if you deliver it to my house! ;)


(More seriously, yes - look at RX8 prices, look at 550i prices, etc. etc. - horrific depreciation on what are fundamentally very good cars. Anything which real-world is c.20mpg or less is virtually unwanted in the trade unless it's got a supercar badge...)

Yes but this only in the UK. Why is that? People on too much credit in the good times now can't afford these cars when things go bad? Too many people want to have the latest toy in the UK, and so when another new car comes out they have to swap? This doesn't happen over here. I have seen only a couple of M3s recently since I started looking. So my car is less common. Also cars cost a lot more here, and depreciate less. So my M3 cost what would be the equivalant now of £50k, that's the cost of a new one in the UK. They are £90k here new!! Mind you, that price does inlude free services (inc. all parts) for 5 years.

[NoelWatson]

Yes but this only in the UK. Why is that? People on too much credit in the good times now can't afford these cars when things go bad? Too many people want to have the latest toy in the UK, and so when another new car comes out they have to swap? This doesn't happen over here. I have seen only a couple of M3s recently since I started looking. So my car is less common. Also cars cost a lot more here, and depreciate less. So my M3 cost what would be the equivalant now of £50k, that's the cost of a new one in the UK. They are £90k here new!! Mind you, that price does inlude free services (inc. all parts) for 5 years.


I was thinking more specifically about big petrols getting marked down because of the perception that they use a lot of fuel, but this indicates that maybe this is not longer the case

http://www.whatcar.com/car-depreciation-calculator/results?edition1=33262&makeId=6805&modelVersionId=7419&editionId=33268

but agreed on the UK being debt addicts - the BMW man said (when Mrs made me test drive an X5) that very few people pay in cash these days - tendency is to get a 3 year deal and chop it in for new model when time is up.

[havoc]

Yes but this only in the UK. Why is that? People on too much credit in the good times now can't afford these cars when things go bad? Too many people want to have the latest toy in the UK, and so when another new car comes out they have to swap?

Yep, very true. Makes for some great bargains on the 2nd hand market though...

[markc]

You should let me know when you are in Dijon. As I am now living in Lausanne again, its only two hours away.

Long weekend in July (7th-11th) then a week in August (w/s 22nd). I may be in the NSX for the latter and might possibly be attempting to squeeze in the Route des Grandes Alpes which would take me almost to your door for it's start :)

I managed 28.5mpg over about 1200 miles in the E430 Tourer last week which I thought was pretty good for a hulking old (2001) V8 bus, shame it doesn't sound like your M3 :(

Cheers

Mark

[forumadmin]

Cool, you'll have to remind me, send me a message near the time, and we'll try to meet up. Now then, 'mpg', what's that? I'm converted to l/100km now. So far managing 10.2l/100km.

[NSX 2000]

Cool, you'll have to remind me, send me a message near the time, and we'll try to meet up. Now then, 'mpg', what's that? I'm converted to l/100km now. So far managing 10.2l/100km.

So you require 2.244 Gallons to do 100km or 62.14miles / by first answer = 27.69mpg, which sounds very good to me.

I had a test drive in a E90 M3 with the flappy paddles a few weeks back and I was very impressed with the speed and response of the engine and gearebox, but the ride over our poor roads is only OK, on the motorway it had a much nicer ride.

[Justin]

I was thinking more specifically about big petrols getting marked down because of the perception that they use a lot of fuel, but this indicates that maybe this is not longer the case

http://www.whatcar.com/car-depreciation-calculator/results?edition1=33262&makeId=6805&modelVersionId=7419&editionId=33268

but agreed on the UK being debt addicts - the BMW man said (when Mrs made me test drive an X5) that very few people pay in cash these days - tendency is to get a 3 year deal and chop it in for new model when time is up.

Changing out of my 735i currently (on board data showing 16mpg AVERAGE over 18mths), I can confirm that perception is against "big petrol" to such an extent that I think it'll be very hard to come back from and manufacturers will be doing more than just turbos and hcci - they'll be re-basing the whole displacement range back to 1960s levels, where 848cc was ample and a 2litre car was a heavy hitter. (Okay, there were massive engines then too, but they were more about refinement than power).