ABS Upgrade Support

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

As I started to receive several questions regarding the ABS upgrade through email and my Blog, decided to start this thread.

With vBulletin software, Blog comment section is designed for a ‘quick chat’ but not for a long technical instruction or attaching lots of files.

These are easier to do in the Forum section.


So, here we go.

0. Basic Info



The parts for the ABS upgrade is different between RHD and LHD models.
This thread is based on the RHD model but most of the info would be useful for LHD owners as well.
For the parts list (RHD), please click here (http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?6286-NSX-Health-Check-Service&p=72646#post72646)
For the upgrade procedure, please click here (http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?6286-NSX-Health-Check-Service&p=72149#post72149)
For the history of ABS, please click here (http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?6286-NSX-Health-Check-Service&p=75279#post75279)


1. System Architecture

All of the pdf files in this chapter are from the NSX Prime (www.nsxprime.com (http://www.nsxprime.com)).



The diagram
9940
The Modulator pin out
9938
(Please note that this is looking INTO the FEMALE terminal side of ABS Upgrade LOOM.)
How to read the error code
9941
(Please use the SCS terminal provided by the ABS Upgrade Loom and NOT the Blue 2pin connector at the passenger foot well.)
(Please do not touch the brake pedal during this process.)
The error code list
9939
How to reset the error code
9937
(Please use the SCS terminal provided by the ABS Upgrade Loom and NOT the Blue 2pin connector at the passenger foot well.)
(You must follow this procedure to reset the error code with the latest ABS. Disconnecting the battery or removing the fuse won’t work.)

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

May i ask what is the part number of modulator. Thanks.

I bought a complete conversion kit from SOS for RHD NSX but i ran into problem with the ABS light staying on after the conversion and the ABS is not work too. I am hoping you can help with your sucessfully conversion. The harness from SOS look different than the one from KSP. Also SOS mentioned the modulator i got is from NSXR.
Original comment for 'Testing the Latest ABS' at Blog section 'Today at Atelier Kaz - NSX Enthusiast'

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi, EK4 hatchback.


You can find the parts list in my other post below;

http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?6286-NSX-Health-Check-Service&p=72646#post72646

This is also located in the ‘Brake’ section of my ‘NSX Technical and Service Information Index’ thread that can be found at the right side of my Blog page.



The modulator that I used is 57110-SL0-Z03 as you can see in the above list.

If you used the one for 2002 NSX-R (02-R), then the last 3 digits of the parts no is –N21.


You can use 02-R modulator with the standard brake booster and master cyl but strictly speaking, you should be using the 02-R spec booster (which automatically requires 02-R master cyl, which will then automatically require specific brake pipe U & V) as the 02-R ABS tuning is designed based on the sharper assist increase by this specific booster.

I was also told that 02-R ABS will allow the driver to have more control over the tyre locking than the normal one.


As far as I know, SoS is buying the ABS upgrade loom from west part of Japan.

As I have never bought this loom from SoS or from this company in Japan, I don’t know the loom schematic but I presume there should be some description on the installation manual regarding the required modification to the pinout of the loom depending on your year model/spec.


ABS circuit was changed several times during its production including the logic on how to trigger the ABS warning light so you will need to find the correct circuit for your NSX.


As I don’t know the detail of your loom, best to contact SoS.

If it is related to the logic of ABS warning light, it should be just a matter of changing the position of single or a few terminals at the connector(s).

Although I have never bought the parts from them, there are lots of good feedback on NSX Prime so should be able to support you.


While ABS warning light is On, you won’t be able to have ABS.


As in this Blog, it is not so common but there is a slight chance of ABS modulator failure from new.

Kaz
Original comment for 'Testing the Latest ABS' at Blog section 'Today at Atelier Kaz - NSX Enthusiast'

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi Kaz, i appreciate your reply and i am still waiting for some useful reply from SOS about my issues.

The ABS modulator that i received with part number: 57105SL0 N10 written so it is different than the one you mentioned. I think the problem is with the harness or the modulator since all other parts are quite straight forward. As the brake is working normal except no ABS. I have brake test last week to confirm it, stopping from about 30 mph to a complete stop. I had a friend watching outside the car and from the test both front wheels lock up from 30 mph to stop but the rear wheels seem to have the ABS working since it didn't lock up (it seems the rear wheels locked once and it rolls again).

I used a DMM to checked all the pins in both side of the connectors, so i know what the pins response to what signal from the US service that i got. But i have no information about new modulator pins out. Could the NSXR ABS modulator pin out different than regular NSX ABS modulator? Also i am afraid the RHD wiring is different than the LHD wiring in the harness, do you have any idea? If you don't mind me asking, did you check out the pins on KSP conversion harness? Thanks. I might have to order the harness from KSP instead of using the SOS harness but this would be the last thing i would do.

Thanks again
Keno
Original comment for 'Testing the Latest ABS' at Blog section 'Today at Atelier Kaz - NSX Enthusiast'

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi, Keno.

What is the spec of your NSX?
For example, the year model?


Unlike the Classic ABS, the upgraded modulator is the same for both the RHD and LHD NSX.


Therefore, the pin out at the ABS modulator is the same for any NSX including the 02-R.

The different part no is for the software code difference.

02-R uses different ABS tuning setup.


All 8 brake pipes are different between RHD and LHD.


The two Orange connector inside the cabin that used to be connected to the original (Classic) ABS controller will have small difference on the pin out depending on the spec and year model of the NSX.


Because of this, you will need to either select the appropriate wiring connection or change the pin out depending on the spec of your ABS upgrade loom.


As far as I know, SoS loom may require swapping of the pin out at the [RELAY] connector for the ABS warning light circuit depending on the year model of your NSX.


Did you see anything in the installation manual from SoS regarding the possible requirement on the pin out modification at the RELAY connector?


You may want to take the photo of the RELAY connector from the direction looking INTO the WIRE side and NOT from the terminal side so that I can understand the pin out and wire colour used.


With the KSP loom, we need to arrange the wiring connection and relay in three different ways for the exact reason.



In Japan, these companies sold more than 600 ABS Upgrade loom.

I never heard any failure with the one from KSP and based on the feedback on the Japanese Forum, it is very unlikely to have failure on the loom from these suppliers and I think SoS is buying it from one of them.


Lots of people are misunderstanding the operation of the ABS.


ABS does NOT prevent the tyre from locking.

Instead, it controls the brake pressure to meet the targeted slip rate at each tyre.

The locking between the front (understeer) and rear (instability) tyre has different meaning so the tuning is different.

Therefore, quite often, the ABS may allow tiny amount of lock at a cetain tyre depending on how the tartgeted slip rate were mapped.

Under normal driving condition, most of the time, the max stopping power or stopping grip is generated when the tyre has just started to slip but the rate will be greatly affected by the load.



The brake test you carried out is not conclusive.

You don’t need your friend to monitor the tyre movement, you don’t need 30mph for the brake test and you don’t need to come to a complete stop.


While the tyre is still cold, just try the same test even at lower speed when/where it is safe to do so.

If your ABS is working, you will get noticeable kick back at the brake pedal before the car comes to a complete stop.


Reaction time and control of the upgraded ABS is so fast and delicate that you will notice significant difference in the kick back speed and the strength compared to the classic ABS.


The upgraded one feels like higher frequency (faster reaction time) but with milder kick back (faster reaction time with delicate control).


So, if you get the kick back at the brake pedal but your ABS warning light stayed ON, then your upgraded ABS is working perfectly fine and just the ABS warning light logic is reversed.


This should be easy to fix by modifying the pin out at the relay connector of your SoS loom.


If you didn’t get even a single kick back at the pedal, your ABS was indeed not working and the ABS warning light was true.


If that is the case, I’ll try the following first.

1. Read the ABS error code.

2. Follow the specific procedure to erase the error code on the upgraded ABS.
You can’t erase it by disconnecting the battery or pulling out the fuse.
You must follow the procedure described in the manual which will involve the brake pedal, IG switch, SCS, etc.
Once done, put ABS SCS terminal to how it was (i.e. disconnect it from GND level).

3. After erasing the error code, turn the IG sw ON but do not start the engine.

4. As soon as the IG sw is ON, the ABS warning light should come ON for about 2sec and then OFF.

5. Turn the IG sw further clockwise to start the engine.

6. As soon as you release the key to let it back to IG ON position, the ABS warning light will be ON for about 2sec and then OFF.

7. If the ABS warning light stayed ON even after 2sec at No.4 and/or No.6, the system failed during the initial diagnosis mode.
Read the error code and ignore the procedure #8 & 9 as you won't have ABS any way.

8. Drive as usual to cover most of the driving condition including some ABS exercise.

9. If you get the ABS warning light, read the error code again (if any).

I think this is enough for the time being.

Kaz
Original comment for 'Testing the Latest ABS' at Blog section 'Today at Atelier Kaz - NSX Enthusiast'

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi Kaz,

Thanks for the details explanation!! Learning alot!

- My NSX is 1992 MT RHD (export version with headlight washer + rear long license plate bumper).

- The SOS installation manual did not mention, the need of swaping wiring.

- Here is the picture of the relay wires side
http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=9925&d=1311265656

- Thanks for the ABS explanation. During my brake tests, i did once feel there is a very small kick on the brake padel. But i did see smoke from locking up the tire so i am not quite sure. I am hoping it just the ABS light problem due the wiring. Please help check the above picture and see if that lead to any solution. If you have more pictures please let me know. Thanks!!

- I don't know how to read the ABS error code since i don't have the +2000 service manual. Also SOS do not provide any information on diagnostic. But the harness does have 2 wires which is said to be diagnostic. I hope it just the wire swaping, if not i would need more details about this diagnostic. Thanks.
Original comment for 'Testing the Latest ABS' at Blog section 'Today at Atelier Kaz - NSX Enthusiast'

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi, Keno.

From your comment, it is not clear whether your ABS system is operating fine (but with the warning light in reversed logic) or your ABS is disabled because it detected some issues.


It is important to know what happens to your ABS warning light when you turn the IG sw to ON position.

When IG sw is in ON position, lots of lights on the dash will come ON and it is one position just before starting the engine.

Regarding the ABS warning light;
Q1: Does it turn ON immediately when the IG sw goes into ON position?

If so, does it stay ON for about 2sec and then goes OFF?
Or, does it continuously stay ON over 2sec ?

Q2: Does it stay OFF for about 2sec when the IG sw goes into ON position and then comes ON afterwards or stays OFF forever?
Thank you for the photo of the RELAY connector.

Without knowing the answer to Q1 and Q2 above, it is best not to mention about the pin out modification at this stage although it is very simple.


If your answer to Q1 is ‘yes’ for the first question, then your ABS warning light is in correct logic and it seems that the ABS brain detected some issues on your system and triggered the warning light.


You can download the manual, follow the procedure below to read and reset the error code.


If your answer to Q2 is ‘Yes’, then your ABS warning light logic is reversed and trying to read the error code may confuse yourself because the system may be working perfectly fine or it may show you the wrong code.


Please download the Workshop Manual from NSX Prime.

The link is in the ‘Useful Information’ section of my ‘Technical and Service….Index’ that you can find on the right side of this page.

Please click on the
[ Workshop Service Manuals - ACURA (Link to NSX Prime) zip version is very useful ].

After arriving at the Prime website, scroll down half way and download the
[ 1997 – 2005 Service Manual.zip ].

After extracting the zip file, open any one of the pdf file and at the top of the page, click on the [ Main Menu ] and then [ Brakes (including ABS) ] section.

You will find how to read the error code by clicking on the 19-10c and the reset error code procedure at 19-11c. Example view here;

Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC)
Indication
’97-99 Models . . . . . . . . . . . 19-48

’00-05 Models . . . . . . . . . . . 19-10c
DTC Clearing
(’00-05 Models) . . . . . . . . . 19-11c
You can also find the pin out of the big black/orange connector at the upgraded ABS modulator on Page 19-6c.


On your SoS upgrade loom, inside the cabin, you should find 2 x single terminal connector.

As I have never seen the actual loom, it is going to be the guess work but one of them should be labelled as DLC (Data Link Connector) and the other one as SCS.

If SoS bought the cable from Japan, then the cable colour for DLC is very likely to be Yellow and SCS as Blue.

Please double check this using the multimeter to check the continuity between the big black/orange connector and these two single terminal after looking at the manual page 19-6c.

DLC is pin#10 and SCS is pin#13 of the black/orange connector.

DLC is for the Honda PGM Tester used at the Honda garage so you can ignore it.

Before turning the IG sw into ON position, you must connect the SCS single terminal on the SoS ABS upgrade loom to the GND level in order to read the error code.

Please do not confuse yourself with the description in the manual 19-10c on using the BLUE SCS terminal at the passenger foot well.

This is for the factory fitted latest ABS system which uses the OEM chassis loom.

We are upgrading the Classic ABS loom so this BLUE 2pin connector won't work for SoS ABS upgrade loom.

Kaz

Original comment for 'Testing the Latest ABS' at Blog section 'Today at Atelier Kaz - NSX Enthusiast'

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi Kaz,

I just went out to my NSX and checked again, the ABS light turn on when sw the ignition key to on position and it does not turn off. Even after started the engine it still on. It never flash or turn off except i turn off the ignition key.

It looks like it fits into your Q1 description. It might be something to do with the ABS modulator. Or could it be the harness wrong connection?

I just downloaded the 1997-2005 Service manual, i will look into it for the diagnostic. Yes the SOS harness come with 2 single terminal connectors, one in yellow and othe in blue but no labelling.

Thanks again, please let me know what you think. Thanks!

Keno
Original comment for 'Testing the Latest ABS' at Blog section 'Today at Atelier Kaz - NSX Enthusiast'

[EK4 hatchback]

Hi Kaz,

Can you comment on my last reply, thanks!!

Keno

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi, Keno.

Seems like your ABS warning light logic is correct but could you confirm the following point?

You mentioned that
‘I just went out to my NSX and checked again, the ABS light turn on when sw the ignition key to on position and it does not turn off. Even after started the engine it still on. It never flash or turn off except i turn off the ignition key.’

1. With the way the new ABS is powered from IG-2 only, your ABS warning light shall be OFF while you are cranking/starting the engine.

2. Then, after the engine is cranked/started and when you release the IG key, it will return to IG On position (IG-2) and the ABS warning light shall come back ON again.

Are these two points correct on your NSX?


Next step is to read the error code because you may have powered up the ABS modulator before connecting all the pipes and connectors.


Regards,
Kaz

[EK4 hatchback]

Hi Kaz,

I checked the ABS light again and it stayed on during the cranking/starting. It just little darker during the cranking/starting. So it does not turn off as long as the ignition key is switch on.

Also you mention about missing a wire or connection during the first start up. My mechanic missed to connect the grounding wire in the conversion harness in the first start up. The ABS light was on so he looked around and found a ripped ground wire without the connector. He reconnected that ground wire and restart the car but the ABS light still turned on.

It does not fit your descriptions, what shall i do next? Thanks.

Also refer to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) for ABS indicator does not go off it refer to page 19-15. But page 19-15 talk about leaking and it does not seem to be referring to problem.

Keno

[EK4 hatchback]

Hi Kaz,

I just left the garage that help to diagnostic the ABS and the code checked to be 51 which from DTC as "Motor Lock". From the DTC it refer to 19-23 but i could not find it in the 1997-2005 manual. Can you help? Thanks!

My garage and i tried to clear the code but it came back again which indicated as 19-11 point 7 as problem detected during initial diagnostic.

Keno

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi, Keno.

While I was writing the followings, you edited the above two posts so these may no longer be the case but let's see how it goes....



......

I checked the ABS light again and it stayed on during the cranking/starting. It just little darker during the cranking/starting. So it does not turn off as long as the ignition key is switch on.

.....
This is fine.
It confirms that your upgrade loom is using IG-1 instead of IG-2 for the power supply of ABS warning light.

IG-1 is always at battery power even during the cranking and thus, it will be little darker during the cranking.





....

Also you mention about missing a wire or connection during the first start up. My mechanic missed to connect the grounding wire in the conversion harness in the first start up. The ABS light was on so he looked around and found a ripped ground wire without the connector. He reconnected that ground wire and restart the car but the ABS light still turned on.
....

This is one of the worst thing you can do to an electronics system.

Basically, the ABS modulator was powered up with floating GND.

This means that from the chassis GND (battery negative terminal) point of view, your ABS may have been powered up at much higher voltage than the normal battery level of 12V.


As a golden rule, for any aftermarket electronics loom, please make sure to double check that there is no short between the power and GND lines before installing it.

Then, if possible, please measure the GND and power supply voltage level against the battery negative terminal before connecting the loom to the components.


It is very likely that you have triggered certain error modes and/or blown the fuse by powering up the system without the system GND connected.


The worst case scenario is damaging the ABS modulator but let’s wait and see.

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

....
Also refer to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) for ABS indicator does not go off it refer to page 19-15. But page 19-15 talk about leaking and it does not seem to be referring to problem.
....

You can only use the error code list (DTC) in section 1-4 of post #1 of this thread AFTER you followed the ‘how to read the error code’ procedure as described in section 1-3.

Did you create the short circuit to the GND at the SCS terminal on your SoS upgrade loom before looking at the error code list (DTC)?

From your first post of the two above, it almost sounded as if you just followed the DTC of ‘ABS indicator does not go off’ without actually shorting the SCS terminal to the GND.

Another reason why I said this is that you didn’t mention anything about #51 error code in the first of the two posts above.

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi Kaz,

I just left the garage that help to diagnostic the ABS and the code checked to be 51 which from DTC as "Motor Lock". From the DTC it refer to 19-23 but i could not find it in the 1997-2005 manual. Can you help? Thanks!

My garage and i tried to clear the code but it came back again which indicated as 19-11 point 7 as problem detected during initial diagnostic.

Keno
Ah.... Seems like you managed to read the error code now......

#51 error code is related to the motor control.

There is a mistake in the workshop manual.

Once it is detected, it will keep the ABS warning light ON until you turn the IG sw off AND until it returns to the normal operation AFTER the next time you started the system and driving.


In other words, when you first triggered the #51 error mode, the ABS warning light will stay ON until you turn the IG sw off.

However, next time when you power up the system and start driving, even the ABS warning light is ON at that point, it will switch OFF if the system returns to normal operation even before you turn the IG sw off.


Unless you have other error code registered, your issue of #51 is not fixed yet and thus keep getting the ABS warning light.

Now that you have read the error code and even tried resetting it but still getting the same code, I would try the following.


1. Keep the battery connected and remove the big black/orange connector from the ABS modulator.
2. Put your multimeter in DC Voltage mode.
3. Connect your COM (black) terminal of multimeter to the battery negative post.
4. Keep IG sw in OFF position. In fact, no need to insert the key.
5. Measure the voltage at pin #24 and 25 against the battery negative post. Both should be 0.00V.
6. If not, your GND connection is not correct.
7. Measure the voltage at pin #8 (FSR +B) & 9 (MR +B). Both should be at battery voltage.
8. If not, you have blown the fuse. As I don't know how SoS upgrade loom is built, you need to find out where this loom is getting the power from the original (classic) ABS loom for pin #8 and 9.
My best guess is through the fuse 'ABS1,4 (20A)' and 'ABS2,3 (20A)' but I could be wrong as I have never used SoS loom.
Both fuses are located inside the pentagonal fuse box under the bonnet.
9. Check the voltage at pin #16 (IG-2).
10. At this stage, it should be 0V or so.
11. Now turn the IG sw to ON position.
12. Pin #16 should be at battery voltage now. Turn the IG sw off.
13. While you are in there, I would also check the pin #4 (STOP) and #13 (SCS).
14. When you press on the brake pedal, you should see battery voltage and when you release it, less than 0.3V at pin #4.
15. Check the continuity between pin #13 and the single wire (blue??) inside the cabin at the SoS upgrade loom.

Hope you will find the answer for the warning light.

Kaz

[EK4 hatchback]

Hi Kaz,

Sorry to confused you on post #11, i had not done the DTC diagnostic as the time.

Anyway back to my diagnostic, i followed your instruction above and found that the pin #9 (MR +B) does not measure any battery voltage (no voltage, not 0 V either). I checked the fuse box under the hood and (ALB 2.3 and ALB 1.4) fuse are ok. What can go wrong with the pin #9 not getting power? It mentioned pin #9 is (Motor relay battery), is there a actual relay?

All other pins checked ok, just like you mentioned above except for the #4 (Stop) since i worked by myself. I can not press the brake and measure the voltage at the same time.

Here is the SOS harness picture (i have extra harness since my friends also ordered this ABS conversion parkage)

10012

May be i shall mention that before i replaced this new ABS system, my old ABS system has problem not activating the ABS pump to pressurize the piston. Could that be related to my current problem? Thanks again.

Keno

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi, Keno.

Please go back to the check procedure #7 in my previous post and when you are measuring the voltage at pin#9 (MR +B), please turn the IG sw to ON position.

Do you see the battery voltage now?
If not, you are 100% guaranteed to get #51 ABS error.
Basically, there is no power to the ABS motor.

As you wrote, pin#9 (MR +B) is the ‘Motor Relay Battery’.

This pin is the power supply for the ABS motor inside the modulator unit.
The relay is also inside there so you won’t be able to see it from outside.

The relay is controlled by the modulator board and it will switch ON and OFF the power supply to the ABS motor.


With 00+ NSX OEM chassis loom and KSP one, pin #9 always shows battery power regardless of IG sw position.

I don’t know SoS loom in detail so I could be wrong but it looks like it is getting the ABS motor power from the original ABS loom of which it has the 2pin orange connector with thick Black and WHT/BLU wires.

Please refer to the attached photo.


10013
I believe with SoS loom, you must remove the mating connector from your original ABS unit and insert the two flat blade terminals from the SoS loom into there to connect it to the one in the photo.


If you still have access to your friend’s SoS loom, please check the continuity between pin#9 (MR +B) of big Black/Orange ABS connector and one of the two flat blade terminals on SoS loom.

If my assumption is correct, you should see the continuity.



It is very interesting to know that you had problem with your original ABS and you couldn’t run the ABS pump (motor).

If my above assumption (pin#9 connects to one of the flat blade terminal) is correct AND if you don’t see battery voltage at pin#9 even when you turn the IG sw into ON position, then your old issue is in fact the cause of ABS #51 error on the upgraded system.


For SoS loom to work, you must see the battery voltage (at least when IG sw is in ON position) at the WHT/BLU wire in the above photo.


The WHT/BLU wire is connected to the ‘ALB Motor Relay’ which gets the power through 40A ‘ALB Motor’ fuse.


Both the 'relay' and the 'fuse' can be found in the pentagonal fuse box under the bonnet.


Please remove the relay and check the operation.
It’s NO (Normally Open) type.
Just have a quick look at the 40A fuse at the same time.

Now SoS loom somehow needs to activate this relay in order to get battery voltage at the WHT/BLU wire.

I don’t have enough info on SoS loom so you need to find this out on your NSX.

My guess is that it is connecting the pin#16 of the 20pin White connector to the GND but the pin numbering on this white connector could be different from the actual number you may see on the connector.

Kaz

[EK4 hatchback]

Hi Kaz,

You are correct!! I just went out to check again, even with ignition key sw to on, the pin #9 still show no battery voltage. So it is not getting power. I still have an extra ABS conversion harness on hand and checked there is continuity between pin #9 and white flat tweminal (one of the two flat terminals provided with the harness). As indicated in the SOS installation manual this two flat terminals are power supplying the ABS unit.

I looked at the 40 A fuse and it is still intact. As for the ALB motor relay, i removed it and checked there is no continutiy between relay terminal 3 & 4. And according to service manual if i supply a 12 V to the relay terminal 1 & 2, there shall be continuity between 3 & 4. I will check that tomorrow, and let you know. Thanks again.

Keno

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi, Keno.

So, that’s a good and bad news.

The good news is that you now know why your upgraded ABS doesn’t work.


The bad news is, it seems that you had this issue (no power at the WHT/BLU wire) even before the ABS upgrade and unless you can remember how it happened, it may take long time to fix the issue.




The target is to get battery voltage at the pin#9 (MR +B) at the ABS black/orange connector.

This is the same as getting the battery voltage at the thick WHT/BLU wire.


Presuming that the ‘ALB Motor Relay’ tested fine, then you need to check the wiring.
If your relay was faulty, then that’s an easy fix.



10016
With the original ABS, we can manually override the ABS pump by creating a short circuit between these two terminals at the ‘ALB Motor Relay’.

This photo shows that two terminals are connected by white cable.

If you can carefully create short circuit between these two terminals and if you can see battery voltage at the pin#9 (MR +B), then this side of the wiring is fine.


If you saw battery voltage at pin#9 AND if you used thick enough wire to create the short circuit, then you can do a quick check of your upgraded ABS AFTER you have cleared the ABS error code.

As mentioned previously, you must follow the specific procedure using the SCS terminal at SoS loom, brake pedal and so on.



10014
Please be careful not to touch other metal parts with the short circuit cable because this terminal is always at the battery voltage through the big green 40A fuse nearby.

40A is a massive current draw…



Now the coil side of the ALB motor relay wires.



10015
At this terminal, you should see battery voltage when you turn the IG sw to ON position.


Now the bit complicated one.

10017
This terminal is connected to one of the pin at the 20pin orange connector of the original ABS loom inside the cabin.

It is the one used to be connected to the original ABS controller box.

You have connected this 20pin orange connector to the mating white connector on the SoS loom and somehow the SoS loom needs to put this pin to the GND to activate the original ALB motor relay.

I guess they just jumped the GND wire there.

I think this is enough for the time being.

Kaz

[EK4 hatchback]

Hi Kaz,

Thank you for the details explanation. I checked the ALB relay and its faulty so I ordered a new one. I shall be able to pick it up today. I will let you let the result, hopefully it will solve the problem! Thanks.

Keno

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

There are lots of same relay used on our NSX.

As you have already upgraded the ABS and if you know the electronics system of it, you could use some of the same relays no longer in use.

In order to prevent any corrosion to the terminals at the relay socket, it is always best to keep something inserted there so it can be only a temporary solution.

As you already placed the order, it is the best thing to do.

Good luck with the test driving session and please remember to clear the error code first before you start driving.

Kaz

[EK4 hatchback]

Hi Kaz,

I just installed a new ALB pump relay and checked there is battery voltage with the ignition switched on. At first the ABS light keep turn on for a mile and it turned off automatically. Also tested the ABS and there is kick on the brake padel when brake hard, no tires locking too!!! Thanks again, problem solved now. Owe you a dinner!

Keno

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Good to hear that you are now driving with the upgraded ABS.

As mentioned in my previous post, for some of the failure mode such as your #51 error code, the ABS warning light will stay ON when you start the engine but once you fulfil the certain conditions AND if the system is back to normal at that point, it will turn the ABS warning light OFF while you are driving and even before you turn the engine off.

Please make sure to reset the error code even you no longer see the ABS warning light.

The error code #51 is still stored in the ABS memory bank and it will confuse your diagnosis for the future issue that you may experience.

For example, upgraded ABS brain is much more sensitive to the signal quality of the wheel speed sensor and it can trigger the error while original ABS brain couldn’t even detect it.


Enjoy driving with the upgraded ABS.


For me, it was a great investment because there is a known big issue with the original ABS.

With the original system, there is a possibility of loosing ABS while braking resulting in hitting the object while with the upgraded one, I have better chance of stopping well before hitting it.

Kaz

[EK4 hatchback]

Hi Kaz,

Thanks for all your advise, really helpful!! I will clear the DTC this coming week, thanks!! I didn't have a working ABS since i bought it 8 years ago. I have tried to get it fix quite a few times and i relied on the garage, in the process replaced a few components and it never really work. The ALB light always coming back on. In the last attempt to fix the old style ABS, we found out the ALB pump would not be self switch on when it lose all its pressure inside. My garage suggested to replace the ALB computer to try it. At the time i questioned about the relay but he said it doesn't seem to be fail!!!

So when my friend went order a complete conversion package for the late version ABS, i said order a set for me too as i wanted to solve this ABS problem but it turn out to be a stupid relay that caused the problem for sooooo many years!!

I do know that the late version ABS work much much better than the old style, it really worth the money to upgrade it!! Also it it requires alot less maintenance and saved some weight. I do alot maintenance on my other car, just not the NSX but i shall be doing it more on the NSX in future.....Thanks again!!
Keno

[NSXGB]

A quick post to thank Kaz for this thread, his blog and personal help via email, which was invaluable while upgrading my ABS system which is now in and working.

My own contribution to the process;

If you are using the SOS upgrade kit, hopefully some additional helpful info:

1. You will need to either cut off the power plug from your old ABS unit to then crimp to the SOS loom or buy a complete new male & female plug. If you buy one, it has to be rated at 20a or higher and weatherproof. I bought a pack of two if anyone wants to buy one.

2. You will have to re-use the main cast ali bracket (the one with Nissin written on it) to mount the new modulator to. Also you re-use the spare wheel guard.

3. There is a drip tube from the Cruise Control actuator that now exits right over the sexy new ABS modulator. I've never noticed anything ever come out of there but I think I'll extend and divert this tube elsewhere.

4. The SOS upgrade loom IMHO could be improved upon. It could do with being another 6" or so longer to allow neater routing and the multi plugs that need to be pushed through the bulkhead grommet are a little flimsy, care needs to be taken here not to bend or damage the connectors.

5. The hardest part for me was routing the new brake lines to their new positions. I would advise using some masking tape on the bulkhead 'shelf' area to guarantee you don't scratch your paintwork when routing your pipes and fitting their brackets on.

HTH.

[nobby]

hi

re the brackets for the new modulator ... did u not buy the brackets as listed on kaz's parts list?

i have and was just curious?

in terms of braking, what do u think of the system compared to old?

had u any issues regarding sensors etc?

[NSXGB]

hi

re the brackets for the new modulator ... did u not buy the brackets as listed on kaz's parts list?

i have and was just curious?

in terms of braking, what do u think of the system compared to old?

had u any issues regarding sensors etc?

I purchased the whole kit from SOS. The old bracket is useable but there is obviously a difference as there is a different part number for the later one. Maybe it's to do with the spare wheel guard?
EDIT: Kaz's list does mention that the bracket can be re-used.


I have only been able to test the new system briefly but luckily it was wet and the most noticeable thing is the greater frequency of kickback on the pedal \ much faster response.

No issues with sensors.

[bbvnsx]

Hello kaz, if you could help with three questions i would be very grateful:

1 - If i wanted to go by the book and also upgrade master cylinder and booster to 02+ R spec can you help me find the correct part # for these two parts? (I tried to find on the internet but couldn't find part number for the 02+ NSX-R)

2 - Since my NSX is LHD, i guess specific brake pipe U & V will also have to be custom made...(I guess RHD part wouldn't work????) something like this but for LHD:

http://spoon-mechanic.up.n.seesaa.net/spoon-mechanic/image/ABSE5A489E68F9BEFBC94.jpg?d=a1

3 - Remaining parts would be the same as for the usual 00+ abs upgrade?

Thanks for your help

P.S. - Has anyone here upgraded to 02 NSX-R ABS and also upgraded to the 02+ R Master Cyl + booster?


Original comment for 'Testing the Latest ABS' at Blog section 'Today at Atelier Kaz - NSX Enthusiast'

....You can use 02-R modulator with the standard brake booster and master cyl but strictly speaking, you should be using the 02-R spec booster (which automatically requires 02-R master cyl, which will then automatically require specific brake pipe U & V) as the 02-R ABS tuning is designed based on the sharper assist increase by this specific booster....

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi, bbvnsx.

1.
46100-SL0-N12: NSX-R master cyl
46400-SL0-N11: NSX-R booster

2. All 8 brake pipes are different between LHD and RHD.
NSX-R (obviously, only RHD) uses two specific ones (pipe U & V, both ends with –N10) at the NSX-R specific master cyl.
The shiny silver cyl shape 'hat' of the ABS modulator faces towards the front on the RHD whereas on the LHD, it will points towards the rear.
Therefore, you may be able to modify the shape of at least one of the two OEM RHD NSX-R master cyl pipe and use it on the LHD car but I think you have big time for the other one.
Pipe U & V are very cheap so either buy them, modify the shape, cut to length, re-fit the fitting and flare the pipe end or just make your own complete new lines.

3. Obviously, the ABS modulator is different on the NSX-R.
It’s 57110-SL0-N21.
From outside, it looks exactly the same as the standard one (-Z03) but the target slip rate and other settings are completely different.


For your reference, on the standard NSX, the master cyl and the booster unit are the same between the RHD and LHD.
Therefore, in theory (never tried it on LHD models), you should be able to install both the NSX-R specific master cyl and booster on your LHD model.

By the way, if you own DBW model and installed NSX-R like rad air duct where normally the spare wheel sits, be careful with the DBW TH pedal angle cable.
On RHD standard model, quite often, I saw this DBW cable being scraped by the edge of the duct. Not sure how it will sit on the LHD DBW model.
On NSX-R, the routing of this cable is different for this reason.

Please note that while the piston diameter looked to be the same at the master cyl between standard model and NSX-R, the stopper pin, piston are different so in the event of master cyl failure, you will require NSX-R specific master cyl overhaul kit or replace with the new NSX-R one again. Should last for many years but not forever so something to be considered as you can't go back to the normal master cyl while using the NSX-R specific booster. They must be treated as a set.


I wrote this somewhere on this Forum but in my personal view, I don’t see much benefits in installing these NSX-R specific ABS parts considering the extra costs unless you use the same tyre, brake, chassis balance and setup as NSX-R plus high average speed range (like frequent track days) with very sensitive right (or left, under certain conditions) foot that you operates the brake pedal.

When compared the standard and NSX-R ABS setup on the same closed street and certain test track sessions over few days, most of the drivers couldn’t tell the difference when they were at their braking performance limit. I couldn't.
Only the professional drivers (I'm talking about the specific license holders) managed to provide the feedback and with the NSX-R setup, it felt as if the system was allowing more room for the driver to control under limit before the system kicks in completely.
Therefore, unless you are at the same level, not much benefit.

Also, 99% of the time on street, you will be activating the ABS under panic condition, not on purposely or under low/mid speed range.
Under these conditions, you may have better chance of saving yourself if the ABS kicked in at earlier stage or there is no benefit of having sharper brake pressure slope as you are required to control within the small window compared to the standard setting.
Just my thoughts and it’s your NSX of course.

Kaz

[bbvnsx]

Thanks a lot for your repply Kaz!

well... i already bought the NSX-R modulator... I also have all the parts for the LHD ABS upgrade (including U and V pipes for the normal booster)... and the KSP Harness adapted by you for the LHD NSX (got it from UnHuz)

My NSX is on KW-V3 suspension and toyo R888 R compound tires... and i installed the NSX-R sway + chassis bar not long ago... this made me decide to go with the NSX-R modulator... but i guess I'm a bit far from OEM to worry to much about going by the book... My greatest fear would be the NSX-R modulator not performing properly without the NSX-R booster and master cyl...

I'm on my original NA1 brakes for now... but i intend to upgrade to NA2 rotors and rear caliper + front caliper bracket to end with the same setup as NA2 NSX-R... or just go with BBK...

My NSX is a 93 MT model with JDM gears + 2nd airbag + EPS from factory but is not DBW, nevertheless thanks for the information it can be useful for other members!

Best Regards

Bruno

[darock]

I think there are many NSXs running the NSX-R modulator with non-R master cylinder. Including myself.

Even though it was fun do dissect the old chirpy abs unit I should have not wasted more than 5 seconds on that. The R modulator works perfect.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7698/17180587461_e790bc602a_b.jpg

Was plug and play except the front right brake line. It was not available from Honda so I made my own adapter to connect to the old line to the new abs.

Bernhard

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

..... I'm on my original NA1 brakes for now... but i intend to upgrade to NA2 rotors and rear caliper + front caliper bracket to end with the same setup as NA2 NSX-R... or just go with BBK....

Best Regards

Bruno
Hi, Bruno.
Not sure where you got the info but for your reference, one of the piston diameter at the front caliper on all 97+ models (both NA1 and NA2) including the 02+ NSX-R was changed from 36 to 34mm so replacing just the bracket at the front won’t provide you with the same front caliper configuration as the 02+ NSX-R.
It will also affect the pedal feeling if you keep the earlier model front caliper configuration (40 + 36mm pistons) as the master cyl diameter was not changed when the rear caliper piston diameter was massively increased.

I have the 02+ NSX-R caliper (black one) on my NSX and regularly overhaul it so I knew it from my own experience.

Kaz

[bbvnsx]

well... it's spread all over prime... I guess the information is not correct... :(

for exemple here:

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/115347-Whats-the-difference-in-brakes-in-a-NSX-R?p=1101530&viewfull=1#post1101530

here:

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/134357-NA1-brake-caliper-larger-than-NA2?p=1288918&viewfull=1#post1288918

and here:

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/165228-Larger-Brake-Rotors-NA2-Brake-Caliper-Bracket-Set-(Complete)?p=1617123&viewfull=1#post1617123

Thanks a lot for the Information Kaz!


Hi, Bruno.
Not sure where you got the info but for your reference, one of the piston diameter at the front caliper on all 97+ models (both NA1 and NA2) including the 02+ NSX-R was changed from 36 to 34mm so replacing just the bracket at the front won’t provide you with the same front caliper configuration as the 02+ NSX-R.
It will also affect the pedal feeling if you keep the earlier model front caliper configuration (40 + 36mm pistons) as the master cyl diameter was not changed when the rear caliper piston diameter was massively increased.

I have the 02+ NSX-R caliper (black one) on my NSX and regularly overhaul it so I knew it from my own experience.

Kaz

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

You now have the correct info then :).



https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-KL1ItfX6XEo/U7_NarJO54I/AAAAAAAARwU/izfUsTh72UA/s800-Ic42/img_006.jpg
My 02+ NSX-R pistons.
If you measure the ratio (17/20) between the two front pistons or just adjust the photo size to get the larger piston to be displayed at 40mm, then you will get just about 34mm at the smaller one.



https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-vYQ51Pst7mM/VpLmxH1izjI/AAAAAAAAdbQ/Hht6DRF_QB0/s800-Ic42/02R_FrontBR.jpg
Also, backed by the real JDM parts sys.
It’s for the 2005 NSX-R and unless you enter the correct model specific code and VIN, you won’t get the correct info.
JDM has so many model codes that don't exists outside Japan and the combination of code and the VIN has to match.
Some of the JDM parts system on the web are showing several parts no for the same parts as it doesn't know the correct code and VIN.

Kaz

[bbvnsx]

Thanks a lot for the information Kaz!