Hot rods

[Papalazarou]

I was just watching American Hotrod whilst simultaneously scrolling through Pistonheads classified on my cockphone, torturing myself with empty promises of cars I will never buy, a carrot dangling , offering a short term materialistic injection of shallow happiness, in the hope of somehow filling my post relationship void, when I realized the problem.
It had been staring me in the face for a very long time and for some insidious reason I'd refused to see it.
I'm not talking about anything meaningful, not in the qualitative sense. I haven't just decided to go get a family and be like the Rest of you, bastards.
No my simple realization was the answer to my serial NSX monogamy with the occasional deviation to something with a great ass, albeit grey.
So here goes; the amazing thing about American Hotrod is how they have this organic process of creating beautiful vehicles. The Americans aren't scared of painting things different colours, using copious amounts of chrome and polished alloy. They live to mod. And there's me sat on the end of the phone unable to make a decision about wheel colour.

In the end of this particular episode, they drive out in a thirties big block. This car was for the moment and totally impractical but just perfect.
The NSX will never be that in my mind, they're worth too much to really chop around, they're incredibly practical and civilized and they don't offer that raw edge of excitement.

However, in all fairness what does? Or more precisely, what does that you'd actually want to own?
When did we get so staid? Look at the Boxster Spyder ( clever marketing conspiracy aside), criticized for its back to basics roof, praised for it's minimalism.
I really like the added element of having that PITA roof and taking the weather lottery on a Sunday morning.
It's a step in the right direction. But it has more luggage space than my Honda and I cant **** about with it.

Maybe a Honda Exige is a step in the right direction. Quick, minimalist and a potentially crap roof.
Still can't really mess with it though.
Atom, no disrespect, but NO.

So any ideas? The NSX goes in the spring, unless I change my mind and then you can call me fickle and bitch about me starting another; what car shall I buy next, I'm so confused; shall it be the 458 or the Gallardo? I've got so much money and I know not what to choose thread.

In summary,
Are all modern cars inaccessible and therefore cold?
Are there alternatives that do not suck? Cars we can be creative with.
Is it ok to shoot people who can't get through a sentence without using the word 'Senna?' damnit.

[Silver Surfer]

Get a GTR !

SS

[m666 edd]

I'm lost for words.

Well almost. I can't believe you actually got a cockphone.

[forumadmin]

Some people have such hard decisions.

There is speed. Go and buy the fastest car for sale. However, there is always something faster. Speed alone does not satisfy. Speed also comes at a price, which is practicality and comfort. Go a different route. Go class. Class never goes out of style and trumps everything else. Do 458s and Gallardo's have class? I think not. An old car, with class, and style always has respect. Who cares if it's not the fastest most technically advanced machine on the planet. You can be above all these things when you have class.

Anyone can have a modern, sterile sports car or uber saloon. The guys driving the classic old cars on the shores of Lake Geneva, or the Italian Lakes, or in the mountains know what's what.

Oh, and it helps to live here, with lakes and mountains and stuff. :)

[Senninha]

.......... The guys driving the classic old cars on the shores of Lake Geneva, or the Italian Lakes, or in the mountains know what's what... :)

And my choice for the drvie would be an '89 SL500 please ....

[Papalazarou]

I'm lost for words.

Well almost. I can't believe you actually got a cockphone.

It's the spell check. Everytime I input iPhone it substitutes the work ****. Strange.

Reference replies. The 458, Gallardo quote was just a joke. I can't afford either of them.
Kevi you're right, outright speed's not the answer either, although it's quite nice.
What I was trying to get at was that we have become isolated from everything we buy. I was viewing the impracticality of some cars as a way to get back to Having some kind of real interaction.
I can completely understand why many drivers give up their GT cars and their 'uber saloons' in favour of something raw and basic. Guess it's like real sex Vs cyber sex. How's the M3 by the way?

Cheers,

James.

[gumball]

Buy a Mk1 Escort, sort the suspension, brakes and running gear then put a V8 in it, add an outrageous paint job. Post pics when your done. :D

[NoelWatson]

Buy a Mk1 Escort, sort the suspension, brakes and running gear then put a V8 in it, add an outrageous paint job. Post pics when your done. :D

Hasn't it taken around a decade for Jon Barker of EVO to do something similar with a Crapi?

[Nick Graves]

Having spent a yoof building kits of the most accomplished custom/show cars, I can understand the appeal.

Dynamically, they may be appalling, but they are works of art in the way something truly sad like a Project K**n Range Rover can never be. Or a bog-standard Evoke, come to that.

You don't have to wreck a real Model A or T; there are plenty of replica parts out there for a first attempt, some of which are quite convincing.

But keep the NSX to remind you of what a good car is like!

[markc]

I'm with you on the modern car front, they're all very good at what they do these days but increasingly dull and same'y. They also very obviously built my marketeers rather than engineers, why else would we have the 2wd SUV or 4 door Coupe :dunno: Personally I couldn't car less about blue teeth integration, lane departure assist or the numerous other frivolous features offered on new cars these days.

My answer is different vehicles for different use/occasions, the Merc (2001 E430 T) for lugging and daily abuse, the NSX for fast touring and the occasional track day, the Puma (Racing) for totally demolishing a B road and making you feel 18 again, the Citroen (S1 CX Pallas) for just being different and making me smile as soon I open the door and the Westfield (SEW) for brain out fair weather blasts (when it's finished of course). Ohh and there's the Mrs's TT Cab (2007 TFSI) for a bit more sensible, reliable, comfortable and conformist transportation.

I'm also fortunate enough to be able to call on my dads MG's (MGA Twin Cam Roadster & MGC Roadster) and Alfa Giulia Spider anytime I feel the need to remind myself how far car design and manufacture has come since the 1950's... it's a looooooog way dynamically BUT a conversely a lot less fun :( I used the Alfa for Goodwood Revival this weekend and it was a hoot, even if the hood leaks like a sieve. Here's the Alfa in the company of hundreds of other classics on Saturday...

Ideas? get yourself a kit car and personalise the spec and build. How about an Ultima or GTD, with a 500hp V8 in Lime Green metallic or maybe a Dax Tojero (Cobra replica)? Maybe add a Cater-field 7 a-like or if you fancy one less wheel a Grinall Scorpion III for back to basic fun? The good thing about cars like these is no one cares how you "mod" them, what wheels you chose or what colour you paint them because they're all one offs!

Alternatively or perhaps additionally you could get yourself a classic to get you back to "proper" motoring? A '70s or 80's Alfa or Fiat 124 Spider would be a good start, perhaps a Lotus Elan +2, Triumph Stag or the Escort suggested by Gumball, or maybe something older and classier like an Alvis or Lancia? Sure they'll let you down now and then and you might have to get your hands dirty regularly :shakefist: but the rewards might make it worthwhile. Ohh and bought right they don't deprieciate... quite the opposite :cool:

Cheers

Mark

[NoelWatson]

Ohh and there's the Mrs's TT Cab (2007 TFSI) for a bit more reliable transportation.


Shurely shome mishtake?

[gumball]

Hasn't it taken around a decade for Jon Barker of EVO to do something similar with a Crapi?

A rather drab effort by EVO in the end, but I never was that taken with the Capri.

[NoelWatson]

A rather drab effort by EVO in the end, but I never was that taken with the Capri.

2 things that made me love it

Dad's friend had the 2.8 4 speed when I was very young - he took us up the A3 at a speed that was shocking for someone used to a 1.3 Escort
Next door neighbour had a 2.0 and proved that it would rev to ~7000rpm - not sure that it did much for longevity, but impressed me.


Tempted if I had space

http://www.surreycapriclub.co.uk/sale.html

[AR]

James to hell with resale I am coming over with the angle grinder!!!

Built not bought is what is all about, at least for me. Is soo satisfying to Tientsin a car into what you want and not care what others might think, so much more so when you do most of it yourself.

For me I am waiting for Honda to get moving. If nothing comes out of Honda I will have to build my own.

[britlude]

well, where to start???? firstly you can stop watching american hotrod, it's good for getting the cars on TV, but apart from that, it just highlights the ****-ups and subsequent lash-ups of the build (and for entertainment there's always an unfeasable time restraint so they can't be fixed properly) and concentrates too much on the idiots behind the scenes rather than the build details! would you really want to pay upwards of $250k for a boyd car after seeing this show??? the best bits are always Gabes trim shop, actually seeing them doing the stuff without all the 'characters' and crap.

secondly... whats stopping you getting something as well as the NSX. there are unfeasably quick/overpowered hotrods and 60's cars out there, with the impracticality you desire for surprisingly little money! of course you pay your money and take your choice, £3k will get a nice 50's ford pop but after that the sky is the limit! there are car builders over here creating automotive art to match that of Boyd's crew! I know of 34 sedans costing £80k, 48 ford woody cost over £70k, and a 41 willys coupe that was £150k, even a Morris J van that was £58k!! obviously you can get belly button ferrari's and the like for that, but the whole point of a hotrod is that it's unique!

Even McLaren are in on it, having a bespoke design department, with a 'middle eastern' customer wanting a McLaren no one else has. so they have got the rolling chassis of the new one, and building a new body for it! unfortunately the customer was shown and approved the stylists design before the engineers could point out the impracticalities! like the side trim that has so many curves and flares that it's got to be carved on a cnc from solid, and the wheels are working out at £50k, as staggered and directional! the current final total is estimated at £4m !!!!

so, in summary, anything can be modded/rodded, you can get creative with anything, it's just having the balls to do it!!!

oh, and for the record, here's my weekend car!
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/thisYup/hot%20rod%20stuff/my%20ford%20Y/ywallpaper.jpg
owned it for 19 years, and still evolving

[Nick Graves]

Actually, your Model-Y is very cool indeed.

But you don't need to spend silly money on a Hot Rod - it's where the rat look originated.

[Papalazarou]

secondly... whats stopping you getting something as well as the NSX.

Money! I blew my track car money on the difference between the 02 and the 54 car. Ideally I'd like someone to trade me a really clean 3.2, so I can free up some cash. Then I can either buy a cheap track car and mod it over a few years (if I don't crash it). Or make myself an NSX project car.
The quandry with the NSX has always been; how do you create something tasteful, but come out of it reasonably financially intact.

Jonathan, I guess you're probably right about the show. I just like the idea of taking time to build something without the constraints which surround cars like ours. I also like the perceived attitude that the yanks seem to have with regard to just getting on and doing it. Not so good when it comes to foreign policy, but great with cars.

I was looking through S2K recently and they just seem to have a more positive attitude to modding. I guess this is partly due to the larger pool of vehicles, hence a tuning industry who can afford to R&D and manufacture new products.

Ary, hopefully I'm wrong, but the new Honda doesn't seem like it's going to be anything we'd want? What would you build given the choice?

Cheers,


James.

[britlude]

the constraints are entirely self imposed!!! it's your car, you can do what you like with it! if money is the issue you buy an early one and mod from there!

[Papalazarou]

the constraints are entirely self imposed!!! it's your car, you can do what you like with it! if money is the issue you buy an early one and mod from there!

I know. Time for a change.


Cheers,


James.

[Senninha]

James,

As another option, sell up on the 54, buy an early coupe in need of tlc and you'll still be able to satisfy the NSX itch. Then use the remaining cash and go buy some of the great drving cars of years gone by. Set yourself a budget, say £10k, and buy and sell some motoring history. Start by reviewing EVO over the years and pick your favourites.

There not hot rods but you'll get to enjoy motoring in a way many would have loved to and one by one you can provide the rest of us with your views on how engineered cars have changed and how they compare to the NSX.

Happy Motoring

regards, Paul

[Nick Graves]

Up to a point yes; the S2000 is suffering at the hands of the Hellaflush generation at present.

You have similar problems; only Mugen/Rays wheels actually fit & parts are relatively costly. Relatively; it's no NSX.

Make sure the suspension adjusters aren't seized & the thing's not been hedged & is banana-shaped.

Having said that, TTS will stick a reliable & well-engineered snail on it for a few bag, which restores the performance you will be missing.

Also, the S2000 feels FAR faster than an NSX at any speed (being a bit of a hot rod!) so it's quite (too?) exciting to drive.

There is something to be said for having an NSX and an S2000 in the garage. The only problem is, if the S2000 ends up faster than the NSX, does it become a circular argument?

[Papalazarou]

James,

As another option, sell up on the 54, buy an early coupe in need of tlc and you'll still be able to satisfy the NSX itch. Then use the remaining cash and go buy some of the great drving cars of years gone by. Set yourself a budget, say £10k, and buy and sell some motoring history. Start by reviewing EVO over the years and pick your favourites.

There not hot rods but you'll get to enjoy motoring in a way many would have loved to and one by one you can provide the rest of us with your views on how engineered cars have changed and how they compare to the NSX.

Happy Motoring

regards, Paul


I've just replied to your post Paul, but I pressed the 'reply to thread' button by accident and it wiped my post. It's a bad function and every now and again It makes me want to shoot the person who designed the forum templates.

Anyway, in short; great idea Paul. I know we've spoken about concoursing or modifying an early car and that really appeals. Although I think it could get expensive and a little frustrating with regard to sourcing parts. I'm sure Ary can vouch for that.

On a slightly different note, I've been following a rebuild with SC of an 02 S2000 on S2Ki UK and that's quite inspiring; the guy has documented it really well and the results are very impressive. A lot of time and money invested.
On selling my car, it's getting tougher and tougher to find a good late car. when I sold my first blue one, they were still in the classified regularly. Now you see about three or four per year. I don't think I'd find another in six month or a year if I wanted one.

Paul, what would be at the top of your £10K list?

Cheers,


James.

[Hagasan]

well not to hi-jack the thread but I used to be well in to Lancia Integrale Evo's (had four in total and regret to this day selling the first one along with my 964RS) but like a lot of these "cult" cars the prices have spiralled nowadays. I think for a semi-reliable "handling" car now my money might go on a 968CS as they can be found and sensible money (£10k with a few miles) and there's enough of a following to be able to source spare or upgrade parts relatively easily......not classy per se or stylish but a fairly honest drive.....

[Nick Graves]

James,

I've done exactly the same thing with the wrong bloody button on several occasions.

Is there a wire we can cut, or something?

[havoc]

I'm with Mark and Paul - keep the/a NSX, and get something 'individual' for those days when you want to express yourself/clear cobwebs away/tinker with something that DOES go wrong/generally feel more involved.

For me, it would be a Caterfield. Love 'em, love the experience, love the hard work required to pedal them properly, love the sheer ridiculousness that they're still legal in this H&S dominated world. But I can see the appeal in proper, old Classics; in Yank metal (V8's don't sound much better); in "old school Group-N" machines such as Catchpole has bought himself; and even in the 'ricer' scene. Or combine the best of all worlds and stick an LS-series V8 into a Westy, an Escort or an RX7! ;)

Think what it is you're REALLY missing, why you keep chopping and changing...then decide what best fills that gap.
- Raw driving experience - real speed without losing your licence
- Opportunity to modify - cosmetic
- Opportunity to modify - performance
- Opportunity to tinker and fettle and keep running well
- Individuality
- etc...

[NSXGB]

...if you want my '93 and a few shillings for the difference, I'll take yours and everyone's a winner...

[Papalazarou]

Think what it is you're REALLY missing, why you keep chopping and changing...then decide what best fills that gap.
- Raw driving experience - real speed without losing your licence
- Opportunity to modify - cosmetic
- Opportunity to modify - performance
- Opportunity to tinker and fettle and keep running well
- Individuality
- etc...

That's a great list.
It would be really good to have all of these in one car, but I'm not sure it exists. Certainly the NSX only fulfils maybe two of those criteria, unless you're brave or have the money to achieve it.
I can't get away from the argument that proper sports cars should be convertible. So there's another prerequisite. This would help the 'raw driving experience.'

Individual, that's much harder. Our cars may not be that indivdual but on the whole fee quite unique even unmodified because there are so few. However, most other cars are so massed produced you have to try harder and that can be a world of pain.

If you do aesthetically mod, you get into the Eddy Izzard concept; whereas style or cool can be measure on a rim of a glass. The difference between cool and uncool are only a couple of mil apart. The coolest thing is only fractions away from complete failure. But then I guess that's down to taste. I still think most of us have a reasonable eye for what's right and what isn't - white wheels anyone;-0

So on to fettling. Isn't that what the girlfriend does (oh damn I do not have one, I am so lonely). Fettling infers that the owner must have some reasonable knowledge of the car they own or simply enjoys throwing money away and risking their lives and the lives of others. I really miss porting out heads and making DIY airboxes. No doubt losing lots of power, but fun.

So, if you'd sold you NSX what car would you start with as a base?

I was thinking and I'm going to sound like a total hypocrite, but that's not so important really. I was thinking an Exige with some tastefully lairy stripes, A Honda SC transplant and some nice brakes and suspension mods.
Is this a potential money pit? Would it be better doing something like this to an older S2000?

There is one final prereq; it must be very financially viable. I hate losing money on cars. So when complete, whatever it is, must be worth at least 75% of the value of the outlay. Obviously personal labour hours aside.

Cheers,

James.

P.s, Simon, No.

[Geraint]

You say it has to be a convertible, then you pick the expensive hardtop version of an obvious choice... :dunno:

I think an Elise with a Honda B- or K- series conversion would be great fun. Buy a cheap one with a knackered Rover engine (shouldn't be hard to find), collect the parts from the numerous Honda breakers or from the heap of totalled EP3s, and you're on your way.

I personally wouldn't go FI on that, especially not on a K-series, but each to their own.

Not sure about financial viability, but if push came to shove then you could break it and get most of your money back on the parts at least.

I'd still have a DC2 as well though. And a NSX :)

[havoc]

I'd still have a DC2 as well though. And a NSX :)
Now there's an idea! ;o)


Not sure about financial viability, but if push came to shove then you could break it and get most of your money back on the parts at least.

Modding cars IS a moneypit. Once you start tweaking a car much beyond standard, you're effectively burning the money unless the parts are rare and durable enough that there's a decent 2nd-hand market for them...and even then don't bet on more than 50%, plus you've the time/labour in replacing the OE parts.


If you want this to be "financially viable" as regards resale, then you arguably need to find a car which doesn't NEED modifying...but that won't satisfy your desire to tinker. Or you get an old classic and shove a modern engine in it - that'll probably resell better than a modded *** car / Lotus / Porsche etc...

[Geraint]

I agree your points re modding; my thinking was that a Lotus with a dead engine bought cheaply shouldn't depreciate much, and neither should a secondhand Honda engine bought carefully. There may be a lot of cost in the conversion and associated parts, though.

All things are relative, of course, and I think that option would be more sensible than turning a NSX into something from barryboys :)

[britlude]

first thing is to decide what you actually want, I decided I wanted a Y after seeing one at a show.

once you have decided what you want, then you can start looking for suitable projects




oh and while i think of it, I've always described a hotrodder as a car restorer who can't be bothered to find the right parts... why search for months for the correct winder handle, when you can fit electric windows!

[mutley]

James,

I have pondered the same thing as you many many times, and even though I still have my faithfull 1992 NSX, when and IF I ever decide its time to finally put the old thing to sleep, the only car that turns my head just now is the Aston Martin DB9, (even though I would love a Lagonda...a car that's so **** it's fantastic -well in my eyes).
However I've just shelled out for a 06 plate supercharged Range rover sport, so the ol' NSX stays for now.

Happy hunting (although you know you'll just go full circle and end up with ANOTHER NSX after what ever you decide to go for!!!)

Jim

[Senninha]

http://hondaelise.com/

[PeteM]

James just remember you will never get the money back that you spend modifying a car. Your market for resale diminishes greatly once a car is modified. Finding someone who understands a modified car is worth more, because you have bolted quality expensive goodies onto it, is rare. Generally you are likely to get some of your money back if you return the car to original and sell it and the bolt on goodies seperately.

My other view point is that if you modify a car to keep it, then that's when it only makes financial sense. This is because the car then becomes a hobby and the tweaking and modifying never stops because that's what you do with your free time. Hobbies are things you do because you enjoy them not because they are financially viable.

I understand your reasons for wanting to sell your 54 plate but personally I believe the only thing that can replace an Nsx is another Nsx, they are unique.

So my suggestion would be sell the 54, find another tidy earlier car then with the remaining pennies buy a S2k paint it lime green, modify it and then drive around a track many times and enjoy !

Cheers Pete.