Explosive engine?

[Tokyo-Joe]

Hey all,

Apologies for the dramatic title but I wanted to attract some views, I'm sat at the roadside pondering what went wrong with my car and what its likely to cost to put it right..

I just had the car mot and serviced by Honda, very happy and running great, I just did 50 easy miles up the a1 in fifth gear, no problems. I get a couple of miles from my destination and the engine bogs down, its losing power, I drop cogs to keep revs up as its a busy road, no avail it just keep dropping. Warning lights go crazy across the dash and the engine is incredibly sluggish. I come to a halt, turn it over it will catch chug cough black smoke then die. I turn over again a high pitch high rpm scream and no engine response.

It's soon to be on its way back to Honda and I was looking for some advice (reassurance?) It's not as bad as I think it is. Any thoughts on what happened would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Joe

[NSXGB]

Which warning lights?
Try to turn crank gently by hand to make sure the engine can turn over.
Assuming no water \ oil leaks externally?
Temp ok just before it died?
Hopefully you will be able to extract some fault codes which will help you greatly...

'High pitched scream'...did this sound like the starter not engaging properly?

Plenty of things to check before you get too worried. You've got a warranty, right?

What work was recently carried out?

[Nick Graves]

Oh s hit.

Hopefully, just a main relay or injection fault (flooding hence black smoke).

I take it no nasty noises beforehand?

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

I think you are flat bedding your NSX at the moment so should not be a problem but please do not even crank the engine unless you are 100% sure that it’s not a mechanical failure.

For the engine to run smoothly, you need good compression, good spark and good fuelling.

From the compression point of view, you were running the NSX up until it stopped and from what you wrote, sounded like no major mechanical noise, big smoke, etc just before it stopped so seemed to be very unlikely to have compression issue unless your crank pulley weight chewed in to the timing belt (TB).
You can check this from the top or bottom of the engine without cranking the engine.

Also, quite often, you will see something on the coolant and engine oil if you have mechanical failure and these can be checked without cranking the engine.


Probably, you wrote this post while waiting for the road rescue so not much info about the spec of your NSX but from what you wrote, sounded like spark/fuel related.


....... Warning lights go crazy across the dash and the engine is incredibly sluggish. I come to a halt, turn it over it will catch chug cough black smoke then die. I turn over again a high pitch high rpm scream and no engine response.
.........
If you saw lots and lots of lights flashing randomly all over the dash, then that will happen if you lost the power supply to the multiple system or the main relay and/or the IG sw got intermittent connection. Or, it could be a short circuit somewhere on the car but this can be checked by the fuse.

Check both battery terminals to make sure they are secure. If they were loose and causing intermittent connection, then it will trigger many warning lights that anything registered during that point were false errors.

If main relay fails, it will cause intermittent power to the ECU and INJ as well as to the Fuel Pump. The power supply to the starter is through the different circuit so you can crank the engine but the engine won’t catch a single spark or it may start up but dies immediately or sometimes within a few miles depending on how bad the intermittent connection is inside the main relay.

If the IG sw got intermittent connection, it is like switching On and Off the system using your key while driving.

If these parts were not replaced, first replace the main relay and start from there.
The main relay on even the later spec NSX such as 2001 models started to fail few years ago so even the last 2005 models are no longer safe from this failure.

Without starting the engine, if you put the key into IG ON position (lights on the dash), you should hear the fuel pump running for 2sec. It will be like humming/hissing/high pitch sound for 2sec from somewhere behind the centre speaker between the two seats. If you don’t hear it or if you hear random fast clicking noise, you have a main relay issue.

There are lots of other things to be checked but above can be done without cranking the engine so good starting point.

Kaz

[Tokyo-Joe]

Hey guys, thanks for the responses :)

The car is dropped off at Honda now but I did gleam a little more info:

- Car was serviced last week, oil, filters, fluids, plugs, clutch master cyclinder adjustment, misc body work/electrical issues (popups)
- Driving the car since has been fine, probably put 80 miles on it
- Drove around 50 miles today, sat around 70-80 in fifth with no rapid acceleration (saving fuel, boring huh?), no bad noises, absolutely no indication of any issues
- Main relay replaced from a newer model at christmas, no issues since then (car actually turned over okay, when my main relay broke before it would not start at all)
- As described the engine just kept bogging down, from memory the warning lights were the battery warning and the other red one next to the battery warning, sorry I was trying to find a place to crash land on a dodgy road so didn't get a proper look at them but it was only lights on the left hand side of the dash.
- I checked the oil and it is full, battery terminals properly connected
- Visually inspected the belts, no problems that I can see (but hey i'm no pro!)
- I had it flatbedded and Honda has instructions not to try and start it so fingers crossed the damage has been minimsed

I'll be keeping this updated incase it comes in handy for other owners

[Tokyo-Joe]

Temp ok just before it died?

'High pitched scream'...did this sound like the starter not engaging properly?

Plenty of things to check before you get too worried. You've got a warranty, right?

Temp, oil pressure and voltage were fine, no issues at all before.

Hmm yes it could be put down to sounding like a starter motor going crazy, or a pulley spinning with no resistance.

I'm sure Honda will warranty their work.

[Hagasan]

Sorry to hear about your troubles so soon after seeing your car up at NW the other week...

The other red warning light on the left is the low oil pressure light.

Not to sound alarmist and I sincerely hope I'm wrong but.... I hope you haven't spun a main bearing?? The screech you heard. Was it instantaneous as you tried to crank the motor over again? I doubt you had a stuck starter for 50 miles and I'm not even sure if that could happen, to wreck it, then when you tried to crank it it was finished?

Good luck....

[NSXGB]

Fingers crossed for an inexpensive electrical fault...Are you sure you tightened those battery terminals up before?!

[Tokyo-Joe]

I'm hoping for a reasonable result but realistically those were very bad noises..

Haha yes bloody terminals tightened up with spacers :)

[AR]

Oil pump perhaps?

[lotusolly]

Sounds very similar to when my a/c compressor seized.

Hope its nothing too drastic for you.

Olly

[Tokyo-Joe]

Okay Bryan from Honda called, he said that the crank pulley has decided to 'become seperated' from the engine, this has then chewed through the cam cover housing and into the cambelt. Apparently it's fairly common (wtf?) so he is starting replacing those parts, a new cambelt and then seeing if there is internal engine damage. I haven't read anything about this part breaking?

[Hagasan]

Okay Bryan from Honda called, he said that the crank pulley has decided to 'become seperated' from the engine, this has then chewed through the cam cover housing and into the cambelt. Apparently it's fairly common (wtf?) so he is starting replacing those parts, a new cambelt and then seeing if there is internal engine damage. I haven't read anything about this part breaking?

The engine is an interference engine so if the belt snapped then it's likely the valves hit the pistons. There must be a safer way of inspecting the engine with maybe an endoscope or something? You may be able to look at the piston crown or valve to try and detect contact before just fitting a belt and seeing what happens, possibly causing more damage?

The crank pulley detaching is well documented. If you read Kaz's blogs on all his TB/WP services he almost always comments on this.... and the need to replace it a safety precaution. It isn'tmentioned in UK servicing schedules but I think it is in Japanese ones?

Good Luck....

PM me if your engine is damaged. I don't have one but I can give you some info on one before you part with too much cash if it goes that way.

[Tokyo-Joe]

Yeah i've been reading and I didn't realise the harmonic balancer is the crank pulley. I'm a bit gutted (understatement?) that it was in for service and inspection last week and they didn't notice this was on the verge of failing. No mechanic will know everything about the cars they work on but if this is a known issue on older cars then surely you would check? I'll call them now and ask if there is any other way to check the engine, they started work on it at 8am so I was half asleep when I called!

Edit: that sounds a bit harsh and to be honest i'm trying to find someone to blame other then myself..

[Hagasan]

I heard you had a warranty? What on and from whom?

Sorry for my bad description earlier on. I follow on from what you wrote that NW said when referring to the crank pulley. This isn't the harmonic balancer. They are two seperate parts. The HB though is visible external of the TB cover and is the one that can detach from the rubber damper. The crank pulley obviously is under the cover with the TB running on it. I'll edit my previous post as not to cause confusion......

[Tokyo-Joe]

Just warranty on the work done by the dealership so unfortunately not related to this issue as far as I can tell.

[Hagasan]

Yeah i've been reading and I didn't realise the harmonic balancer is the crank pulley. I'm a bit gutted (understatement?) that it was in for service and inspection last week and they didn't notice this was on the verge of failing. No mechanic will know everything about the cars they work on but if this is a known issue on older cars then surely you would check? I'll call them now and ask if there is any other way to check the engine, they started work on it at 8am so I was half asleep when I called!

Edit: that sounds a bit harsh and to be honest i'm trying to find someone to blame other then myself..

I'm guessing you could reasonably hope that they might notice or at least check the condition of the HB but if you didn't specifically ask it may be difficult to expect? If it only lasted a few hundred miles from when you got the car back it's hard to determine what condition would be detectable at the garage work stage? I think this is a reason just to replace them if there is no history of such replacement. I'm no expert but from what I understand they can go very quickly and be wrecked within a few miles eating into the cover and belt.

Did you here any noises a few minutes before the power loss?

There was a guy in the USA, Titaniumdave on NSXPrime, who made up metal shields to try and avert the failed HB going into the cover.... Not sure if they would work if called upon? I think a few folk in the UK fitted them...many did in the US

[Tokyo-Joe]

There was no noise before the power loss - i'd argue I heard no noise during the engine bogging down either I didn't have stereo on and the exhaust is fairly quiet at cruising speed.

If you have a tip on an engine then please let me know so I can start gathering my options. I see two on ebay.

[NSXGB]

Ouch. You've been a bit unlucky there. Surprised you never felt any vibration or noise as it went.

[Tokyo-Joe]

Yeah I really didn't feel anything off, it felt like.. a fuel pump dying on another car, just stuttering and gradually all the power being lost.

Pretty bad luck i'd agree, i've owned it for give or take six months, paid a premium for low mileage car, absolutely stacks of history all from Honda dealerships, great condition, spent 3-4k on various tweaks, repairs, preventitive maintanence or upgrades and now looking at a replacement engine. I'd like to say I took it on a european tour or to the track but it's had a really easy low mile life with me.

[Hagasan]

There was no noise before the power loss - i'd argue I heard no noise during the engine bogging down either I didn't have stereo on and the exhaust is fairly quiet at cruising speed.

If you have a tip on an engine then please let me know so I can start gathering my options. I see two on ebay.


PM sent to you

[Hagasan]

Yeah I really didn't feel anything off, it felt like.. a fuel pump dying on another car, just stuttering and gradually all the power being lost.

Pretty bad luck i'd agree, i've owned it for give or take six months, paid a premium for low mileage car, absolutely stacks of history all from Honda dealerships, great condition, spent 3-4k on various tweaks, repairs, preventitive maintanence or upgrades and now looking at a replacement engine. I'd like to say I took it on a european tour or to the track but it's had a really easy low mile life with me.


Where did you buy it? From a dealer? If so, depending on the useage/minimal mileage you have done (if it's low) and proof of receipts (showing responsible ownership) for your work etc.... it might (?) be possible argue legally as not being "fit for purpose" but could be a real struggle though.....

[Tokyo-Joe]

Private sale unfortunately, to be honest the seller wasn't a chancer he was a genuine guy and I wouldn't want to sting anyone six months later. As far as he would know I could live at Santapod and have been drifting it :)

[Hagasan]

No. no I quite understand. A car from a dealer on the otherhand (who in the eyes of the law would be deemend an expert compared to you or I) should supply a car fit to be used for it's designed purpose. If you had only done a few hundres miles since purchase and then this happened, this is where I'm saying you may have had a case against the dealer....

all irrelevent now anyway....

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi, Tokyo-Joe.
Sorry to hear that you had crank pulley failure.
It is very common and for me, it is one of the ‘must’ items to be replaced during the TB service.

I hope I won’t be annoying you by the comments below but for the sake of other NSX owners and the potential future ones, please allow me to remind the importance of replacing the crank pulley at the time of every TB service.



.......
From the compression point of view, you were running the NSX up until it stopped and from what you wrote, sounded like no major mechanical noise, big smoke, etc just before it stopped so seemed to be very unlikely to have compression issue unless your crank pulley weight chewed in to the timing belt (TB).
You can check this from the top or bottom of the engine without cranking the engine.......
Kaz
Although I mentioned the crank pulley in my post above, I can understand that you didn’t notice it considering the state of your mind when you had your NSX sitting in front of you at the side of the road.

Addition to the brake, tyre, Oil, Coolant, etc, checking the crank pulley is one of the things that I always do before carrying out any test driving sessions with the owner at the time of my Health Check service.

In the past, I found two NSX within one week showing the crank pulley about to fail and just recently, managed to save one very lucky owner.
http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/entry.php?401-NSX-Health-Check-Service-–-Day-1 (http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/entry.php?401-NSX-Health-Check-Service-%E2%80%93-Day-1)


By the way, I will keep using the word ‘crank pulley’ because that’s what it says in the Workshop manual as well as in the Parts list.
In fact, it is called as crankshaft pulley.
The one inside the TB cover driving the TB is called as TB drive pulley.

Also, while the weight on the crank pulley is acting as the harmonic balancer for most of other production cars, for NSX, the main purpose is to protect the TB itself from the resonance frequency at the specific rpm.
The topic in my 'NSX Technical and Service Information Index' thread; Crank Pulley, the story behind... (http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?p=74144#post74144)



http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?6286-NSX-Health-Check-Service/page28&p=72032#post72032 (http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?6286-NSX-Health-Check-Service/page28&p=72032#post72032)
The crank pulley doesn’t fail all of a sudden. The process is very slow.
As you can see from the photos in the above link, the weight will first start to dislocate slightly at a very small section and start to create an angle to the crank pulley. It will keep dislocating slowly and then, it will exceed the critical point and any sudden changes in rpm will cause the weight to completely dislocate itself from the pulley.
From this point, it doesn’t take too long before the pulley starts to chew into the TB cover.
Unfortunately, until the TB is actually damaged and jumped the tooth to cause valve timing issue, you won’t feel any noise, vibration or anything while the engine is running.
Some people managed to hear the metal like scratching noise just after stopping the engine because the dislocated weight was still spinning by the inertia for a short period creating the noise.
Because of this, I’m afraid unless you have requested to replace the crank pulley to the new one and the actual new part failed soon after that, it is very unlikely to be covered by any sort of warranty.


So, please-please replace the crank pulley at every TB service and if you track your NSX or have aftermarket header/exhaust or any other parts radiating more heat, please check it regularly.


Lots of good people at Norton Way so I won’t worry about the process.
For your reference, if the TB jumped just a single tooth, your valves may be safe but from what you wrote, there is a chance that you have already bent them.

I won’t replace the engine just because the valve was bent. The valve itself is not that expensive and the biggest cost would be the labour charge. You also seemed to be happy with your engine for the last 6 months.

Once the new parts are on the engine, they will probably carry out the leak down test on each cyl. You are meant to warm up the engine before the leak down test but for bent valve check, there is no need as you will see huge difference between the good and bad cyl even when the engine is cold. You just turn the engine by hand to set each cyl at TDC so very unlikely to cause further damages including the valve seat even the valve is already bent.

While in there, I would recommend replacing the Water Pump (WP) if it was not replaced during the last TB service and if your engine has done more than 60K miles in total, you may want to replace the LMA if yours is the original design. New desin LMA on the later models will last much longer but you must select the correct parts no. for your engine spec.

Hope your NSX will be back on the road in the near future.

Kaz

[Tokyo-Joe]

Okay so I got a full assessment;

The crank pulley failed causing damage to the cambelt cover, cambelt and water pump. However it did not fully detach and is still spinning on the crank. Because of this they reckon it has not damaged the engine any further, they had the heads off and inspected the valve clearances, found they were okay.

So a mixed blessing, they are looking for £2017 to put it right with new water pump, cambelt, crank pulley, cambelt cover and labour. Does that sound reasonable?

[NSXGB]

If that's including all parts at uk prices, inc vat?, that sounds a good deal. The head gasket set comes in at £860 rrp on its own. if they are ok with it you can save yourself quite a few shillings on that if you get the parts from the USA.

[Hagasan]

Okay so I got a full assessment;

The crank pulley failed causing damage to the cambelt cover, cambelt and water pump. However it did not fully detach and is still spinning on the crank. Because of this they reckon it has not damaged the engine any further, they had the heads off and inspected the valve clearances, found they were okay.

So a mixed blessing, they are looking for £2017 to put it right with new water pump, cambelt, crank pulley, cambelt cover and labour. Does that sound reasonable?


If that's including all parts at uk prices, inc vat?, that sounds a good deal. The head gasket set comes in at £860 rrp on its own. if they are ok with it you can save yourself quite a few shillings on that if you get the parts from the USA.

So the cam belt didn't break? That's a big relief if it's not an engine out repair.....pricewise....well the US parts option is probably more grief than it's worth on this occasion as the car is in their garage. I'd imagine they'd want it off the ramps fairly soon? If so then could they store it awaiting parts or would you have to flat-bed it home then back? The parts from the US are going to realistically take three weeks.

You've got to remember also, they did look at it right away rather than having to book it in and wait days as well.

I agree with Simon that the price is fair for UK parts and it's probably worth going ahead if you can afford it as it will be done sooner rather than later.

I would just get some sort of agreement that they will replace the expensive gaskets etc as required (some places just re-use) and confirmation that they are sure the diagnosis is correct so you don't pay a hefty bill and a fault materialises once back on the road a few miles. Hopefully if the belt didn't break you are lucky and should be good to go...

It sucks I know but I guess it could have been much worse!?!

Hope you're up & running soon..

[Tokyo-Joe]

Yeah that's all Honda UK prices straight from the dealer. It's mostly labour I think.

I have given them the go ahead. They reckon it'll be a couple of weeks to get the parts. An expensive lesson to check the crank pulley.

[nobby]

hi mate

really sorry to hear about your problem ... good to hear not too much damage appears to have been done.

as kaz stated a very important check to do, even though my car had fairly low miles considering its age as part of the refresh work carried out based on reading info on here and on prime the pulley was replaced ...turns out my pulley taken off showed no signs of wear but better safe than sorry

hopefully ur back on road soon

[Hagasan]

Tokyo-Joe

http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?8151-Attention-Harmonic-balancer-(crank-pulley)

the link above shows the shield I was referring to earlier today...

[NSXGB]

Did they say why they took the heads off? Surely a compression check, as Kaz suggested, would have been sufficient if the cambelt didn't snap or jump teeth? Would be interested to know...

[markc]

Did they say why they took the heads off? Surely a compression check, as Kaz suggested, would have been sufficient if the cambelt didn't snap or jump teeth? Would be interested to know...

As they mentioned "to inspect the valve clearances" I suspect they meant they had the cam covers rather than the heads off? Given the amount of time nvolved, and the cost of new head gaskets, the price quoted to repair would be a real bargain if it included that work!

You have been both very unlucky, to have the pulley fail so soon after a main dealer service, and very lucky that it didn't damage the timing belt and hence valves/pistons/heads, in a single incident. I'd buy a a lottery ticket this week if I were you :)

Cheers

Mark

[NSXGB]

That would make more sense if it was cam covers rather than heads removed, about £80 in gaskets instead. For me though, that makes the price quoted a bit high, probably due to the price of parts from them.
I would see if they can look after the car while you source the parts from the USA.



As they mentioned "to inspect the valve clearances" I suspect they meant they had the cam covers rather than the heads off? Given the amount of time nvolved, and the cost of new head gaskets, the price quoted to repair would be a real bargain if it included that work!

You have been both very unlucky, to have the pulley fail so soon after a main dealer service, and very lucky that it didn't damage the timing belt and hence valves/pistons/heads, in a single incident. I'd buy a a lottery ticket this week if I were you :)

Cheers

Mark

[Tokyo-Joe]

I gave them the go ahead to get stuck in and they estimated up to two weeks to get the parts and complete it.

I will indeed be buying a lotto ticket, I'm a contractor and am finding slim pickings this month so it couldn't have come at a worse time, cars eh?

[Nick Graves]

Shi t happens at the worst time just to wind you up, I'm afraid.

That was a bloody close call and a snapped belt could have made it five times more expensive, so oddly, you were lucky your car had more sense than you & went on strike!

I mustard mit, I tend to poke my finger in the CP whenever the engine cover's open & I listen to the RH rear wheel for untoward whirring noises. Mine is due a TB change in the Summer and it'd be my luck for it to go just before. I can find no fault with it as yet.

I'm typing this on Karen's machine; my HDD died yesterday & Mr Dell needs to replace it. It's kind of sh it that it's two days before the Tax Return deadline (piles of appeals against late filing) but it would have been even worserer last week when I was snowed under. Or after 16 Feb, when the warranty expires. So that's sort of good luck out of bad...

[Tokyo-Joe]

You should take a look at backing up your work remotely mate, apple and google both offer remote services that can really save your bacon when HDD decide to give up the ghost :)

[Chris B N]

Hi Joe,
as always there is never a right time for these things.
And it could have been much much worse.
But with new TB, WP, TB cover etc and new Bottom Pulley
that area of maintenance should be well covered for some time
Good luck with it all.
I'm sure you will continue your NSX love affair when she is back in your hands
Cheers Chris

[Hondaboy]

Does anyone know if the autos are any safer from this fault as the pulley looks quite different and looks like a shield already in place?
Was thinking about buying the shield from SOS but do I need it?

Had Honda inspect mine while changing TB though starting to wish I'd just paid for a new one

Cheers

[Nick Graves]

You should take a look at backing up your work remotely mate, apple and google both offer remote services that can really save your bacon when HDD decide to give up the ghost :)

Back-up's the easy part; it's re-installing all the d-bases & other sh it you've forgotten about that's really tedious.

Even the Dell guy's strugging with the graphics driver...

[Tokyo-Joe]

Fair play mate :) It's always a ballache rebuilding your work machine as we tend to rely on them so much. Nick what line of work are you in if you don't mind me asking?

[Chris B N]

Auto bottom pulley is a different size still does the same harmonic balance job and does not have any protection
ie. it can fail in the same way and do the same damage.
As Kaz suggests precautionary change when the TB is changed.
Without being an alarmist, If there has been a TB change with no record of pulley change it is always worth considering a change, low cost compared to what can be a catastrophic failure and cost.
about 3 years ago someone had a pulley failure and this woke up many people and there was a lot of owners installing new bottom pulleys. IMHO it is a high risk not to change, because of the potential outcome. basically the same risk as not changing the TB when it is due

[Nick Graves]

Fair play mate :) It's always a ballache rebuilding your work machine as we tend to rely on them so much. Nick what line of work are you in if you don't mind me asking?

I'm an accountant as my day job.

Hence the slight inconvenience...

Even the SW provider is struggling to assist with the re-instal of the SQL D-base and has gone home to cry. That's MS.Net for you.

[NSXGB]

Was scouting around looking for something and found this: http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?9686-Car-Engine-vibration&highlight=harmonic

Maybe it was your harmonic balancer?

[NoelWatson]

Even the SW provider is struggling to assist with the re-instal of the SQL D-base and has gone home to cry. That's MS.Net for you.


What has .NET got to do with SQL?

[Hagasan]

Was scouting around looking for something and found this: http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?9686-Car-Engine-vibration&highlight=harmonic

Maybe it was your harmonic balancer?

Very diligent/resourceful (or what ever the word is).... Inspector Clouseau on a nightshift :D. Looks like the warning might have been then indeed? Unfortunate it wasn't recognised for what it may have been at that time although NG mentioned it specifically

[Tokyo-Joe]

That was one of the reasons it went to Honda so that issue could be inspected, it had a clean bill of health instead. Also I had bad clutch squeal when on the gas I wonder if that was the balancer as well.

[jpspringall]

What has .NET got to do with SQL?
Depending on how you install .Net, it may try to install SQLExpress, which in turn can have a hissy fit, if you've already got SQL installed, then you can have a load of issues x86 vs x64

[Nick Graves]

Don't ask me; I detest IT with a passion. Especially Micros hit IT. Some poor schmucks have it in their Focuses now.

I'm clearly better with harmonic dampers & stuff.

Would be nice to be able to do accountancy sometime in the next 2 days though....

[NoelWatson]

Depending on how you install .Net, it may try to install SQLExpress, which in turn can have a hissy fit, if you've already got SQL installed, then you can have a load of issues x86 vs x64

I'm getting even more confused - why would you have both x86 vs x64?

[jpspringall]

I'm getting even more confused - why would you have both x86 vs x64?

Normally for websites, you can have some websites that dont play nicely in x64, so even though you are running an x64 box you set the website to run x86.

Also the fact that most development tools for .net are x86

[Nick Graves]

Looks like it was a broken key or a tritone in the registry which is in the underworld and I don't go there.

Now it's Windows PowerShell that's failed. I use that in the NSX, I think.

[NoelWatson]

Looks like it was a broken key or a tritone in the registry which is in the underworld and I don't go there.

Now it's Windows PowerShell that's failed. I use that in the NSX, I think.


I had Powershell issue when installing SQL 2012 the other day. Pain.

[Tokyo-Joe]

Nick do you work for a firm or do private work as well? Feel free to pm me some info, my company is with the first accountant I ever used and i'm paying way over the odds for their fee so starting to look around for alternatives..

[NSXGB]

That was one of the reasons it went to Honda so that issue could be inspected, it had a clean bill of health instead. Also I had bad clutch squeal when on the gas I wonder if that was the balancer as well.

I'm surprised that if you gave them that info, they did not check that out. I think they should do you a much better deal on the price.

[Lankstarr]

Lmk as well nick, ESP if you do work for contractors.

Cheers,

Luke

[NSXGB]

Might be worth a call to the CAB to find out where you stand.

[mutley]

Is it just me or has this thread been hijacked???


Jim

[Hagasan]

Is it just me or has this thread been hijacked???


Jim

Yes!! I want to know what make of computer you are using, the operating system, what virus protection you have and of course whether you are computer literate or not because I don't know what NSX refers to on my database entry....:D

Oh and hope you're doing well as you're not on here much....

[Nick Graves]

Also your date of birth & mother's maiden name...

It's very kind of you guys to enquire after my services; much appreciated! At present, I'm not taking on any new clients as I'm trying to establish a work/life balance - by getting a life, of sorts.

I'll probably come to regret that statement after the Euro collapses, but I'll worry about it then.

But thanks all the same.

Now can we talk about wobbly Vvissflaps and tatty rings & things? It's far more entertaining...

[Tokyo-Joe]

Haha that's okay I asked the question which caused the shift in focus so no worries! Noobie error :P

I could kick off with NW and have considered it but to be honest the success possibility vs destroying future relationships with NW have put me off that course. I was really impressed with their original work and would not have a bad word to say until this thing happened. As it stands I don't really have any other mechanical options that I will trust. If I forced the issue to a point where i'm calling them incompetant for not spotting this issue I wouldn't want to turn up in six months for a service, i've had that relationship with garage's in the past and it's not great.

[mutley]

Yes!! I want to know what make of computer you are using, the operating system, what virus protection you have and of course whether you are computer literate or not because I don't know what NSX refers to on my database entry....:D

Oh and hope you're doing well as you're not on here much....

Yes I am still alive and well, my poor car hasn't moved much, I think I have a problem with my diff! But apart from that I am on the move again, been posted back to North of Scotland (Lossiemouth)

Joe, Havn't seen you around for a while, I hope you get you car sorted, and not costig too much

Jim

[Tokyo-Joe]

Hey all.

I just got it back, just over two grand in all.

It seems to drive okay, the mechanic foreman said that the timing belt skipped teeth but when they examined the valve clearances they were okay. There are no error lights and temp and pressure is fine, I took it up the bypass and beasted it and it was fine. When I was coming back through town I *think* is hesitated a little but as I kept trying to recreate that and couldn't im hoping it was in my head.

I don't really feel like I have confidence in it now, Honda said "Unless we open the engine then we can't garuntee that damage wasn't done" but they were happy to slap a new cambelt and crank pulley and send me on my way.

Hopefully it won't break expensively.. again...

[Tokyo-Joe]

Oh it also sounds quite tappety.

[Nick Graves]

Well, you've got it back.

You could always shove a boroscope down the plug holes & have a look round, to allay your concerns - marks on valves or piston crowns.

[Tokyo-Joe]

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/419398_10150561425938173_592718172_9125252_2892148 99_n.jpg

I gave it a wash today and it looks luurvely :)

[Boomin33]

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/419398_10150561425938173_592718172_9125252_2892148 99_n.jpg

I gave it a wash today and it looks luurvely :)


Luurvely!!!???? THAT'S A BIT OF AN UNDERSTATEMENT.... as far as my taste goes - ONE OF THE BEST LOOKING NSX's I've seen. that is black, right?

I'm really liking your alloys.. they suit it well.

[Tokyo-Joe]

An thank you :)

I have some 02 skirts and work equip staggered wheels to fit but this engine work has delayed my plans for a few months while I save up for tyres etc.

[Problem Child]

Very nice............I like that!

[markc]

I just got it back, just over two grand in all.

Car looks great, I hope there's no long lasting damage. For £2K I'd want those valve clearances checked again if it's noticeably more "tappety" than before.


I'm really liking your alloys.. they suit it well.

Did you steal those wheels off a 2003 model 996, I wasn't aware that they fitted ;)

[Tokyo-Joe]

Yep off a 996 mate, hub converters changed the pcd. They will be up for sale shortly :)

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi, Tokyo-Joe.

As in my email, initially I wrote this a while ago but it tends to go off topic regularly from the opening post these days, didn’t have a chance to post this.
Based on our recent email exchange and as proposed to share the info with others, please refer to the followings for the additional info.


Presuming that your engine is not modified and if it is early NA1, your engine may feel ‘tappety’ if you hold your rpm at 2,100 – 2,200rpm.

I have never judged whether the valve is bent or not by measuring the valve clearance so can’t comment on this from my actual experience but in theory, it would detect the big bent.

If you have any doubts, I would carry out at least the compression check before putting too many miles on the engine.

It is a good idea to carry out the compression check at least once a year to monitor the condition of the engine. It can be done at any places and if you use Honda garage and followed the Honda system, very likely to be charged about 0.6Hr for one complete engine although I have never used them in UK in my life so not sure about the actual cost.

Please remember that the absolute figure depends on many conditions such as eng temperature, the measurement timing after the engine was stopped, the cranking rpm, etc so having a little higher or lower figure doesn’t mean a lot. For NA1 C30A, example figure is about 240psi.

It’s important to focus on the deviation between each cyl.
Most of the people will tell you it’s OK to have about 10% difference between the cyl which is about 24psi for C30A but in my view, it should be within 5% for healthy C30A engine which is about 10 - 12psi.
If your engine is at low mileage and if the valve clearance was carefully adjusted, you can get to within 2 psi deviation window as seen on some of the engines that I serviced.

If the valve was bent, you would see huge drop on the compression data as long as you measured it soon after it was bent.
While compression can tell several things, Norton Way Honda is correct in stating that unless they open the engine, they can’t 100% confirm whether an engine is damaged or not.

For example, in Japan, one C30A engine showed no issues at all on the compression check but on the rolling road, the power figure was lower than the similar spec NSX.
After discussing with the owner, he agreed to open the engine and on inspection, indeed one of the valve was slightly bent.
The owner mentioned that he had engine issue many years ago and although he was feeling something strange, he kept driving it for many miles over years and eventually, he felt that the issue was gone.
It was found that the slightly bent valve eventually managed to deform the valve seat as well over lots of mileage, enough to create good seal for just a compression check which will be using only about several hundreds rpm cranking speed. However, it was not good enough for high rpm testing such as rolling road.

I would also carry out the leak down test if the compression data showed question mark.

If looked after properly, our engine is fairly strong. For example, mine is still holding similar compression over the last 17 – 18yrs with over 135K miles.
Good luck.

Kaz

[Tokyo-Joe]

Thanks so much for your insight Kaz, it is always appreciated and I think every owner reading this would agree.

I have got the word back from Bryan at NW and the engine has shown compression between 240psi and 235psi, i'll collect the specifics tomorrow when I get the car but it looks like it's all good. I am really relieved.

As a result i've booked into a rolling road early April and my first track day at Bedford Autodrome late April :D I can't wait.

[Nick Graves]

That's quite a good result. Tough ol' bags of sh ite, these Hondas!

Are you going back to Honda wheels, then?

[Tokyo-Joe]

I have some period correct work equips that I'm keen to get on :)

[Nick Graves]

Ok - I like the daintiness of the Porsche items, but the Work Equips would be rather more 'correct'!

[Tokyo-Joe]

I gave it a beasting today and it hesitated then flicked up the TCS warning until I shutdown. On ignition the error had gone but soon hesitated and stayed on. After that it doesn't hesitate? Very strange. Any thoughts?

[NSXGB]

Woukd not say this had anything to do with bent valves. Have you read the stored error code?



I gave it a beasting today and it hesitated then flicked up the TCS warning until I shutdown. On ignition the error had gone but soon hesitated and stayed on. After that it doesn't hesitate? Very strange. Any thoughts?

[Tokyo-Joe]

Nope but I will look into it next week.

I think the engine is safe, it feels fine, compression is okay etc I think it's probably my second main relay potentially being a dick :)

NW mentioned my plugs could do with changing so that will be on the list before my track day in April.

[AR]

Plugs are cheap as chips and not that hard to change, you should give it a go.

[Problem Child]

How easy to change plugs?

Do they come with the gap preset or would I have to do that?

Could a novice do them?.........or should I just get NW to do them when it is in for cam belt change (although I like the idea of doing it myself)

[AR]

Platinum plugs come ready to go, still a good idea to carefully check the gap.

The hardest part is the front bank for those of us with big hands, and getting the coil plugs off.

Have you ever changed a spark plug before? If yes you should be able to do it, if not better not just in case.

Cheers,

AR

[Problem Child]

30 years ago on my Mk1 XR2..............I think I'll leave it to NW

[AR]

30 years ago on my Mk1 XR2..............I think I'll leave it to NW

Is like riding a bike mate LOL.

[markc]

The hardest part is the front bank for those of us with big hands, and getting the coil plugs off.AR

They are a bit of a bugger due to the proximity of the bulkhead (passenger cabin side) meaning that you need a spark plug spanner of exactly the correct length. Too short and it won't reach the plug, too long and you can't get it in. However Honda thought of this and the plug spanner provided in the standard NSX toolkit fits perfectly :cool:

Cheers

Mark

[Tokyo-Joe]

I had some time off before my new contract starts so I thought i'd have a stab at finding the error codes. I lifted the carpet back and removed the metal sub guard and discovered:

1) I have no subwoofer! Bugger.

2) I cannot for the life of me find the diagnostic cable, I searched all in there and it's either no longer present or it has been tucked into the center console / driver side of the dash. Wow - that's irritating.

[AR]

Have you looked at the location in the manual.

[Tokyo-Joe]

Yep, the position looks to be just above where the sub woofer should be from the manual/photo's i've seen?

[AR]

They are a bit of a bugger due to the proximity of the bulkhead (passenger cabin side) meaning that you need a spark plug spanner of exactly the correct length. Too short and it won't reach the plug, too long and you can't get it in. However Honda thought of this and the plug spanner provided in the standard NSX toolkit fits perfectly :cool:

Cheers

Mark

Spanners and extensions were not a problem, I also like to TQ things as per the manual, but my hands are made more for 6 inline work LOL.

[matpp]

How easy to change plugs?

Do they come with the gap preset or would I have to do that?

Could a novice do them?.........or should I just get NW to do them when it is in for cam belt change (although I like the idea of doing it myself)

I felt my engine was running a little rough so decided to check the plugs.

Glad I did as I found 2 plugs were hand tight......re-torqued them all and the engine ran far better.

Quite fiddly but it's an easy job and (in my case) worth doing.

I read on Prime somewhere that the plugs do have a tendency to loosen if not torqued up correctly.

[Hagasan]

I had some time off before my new contract starts so I thought i'd have a stab at finding the error codes. I lifted the carpet back and removed the metal sub guard and discovered:

1) I have no subwoofer! Bugger.

2) I cannot for the life of me find the diagnostic cable, I searched all in there and it's either no longer present or it has been tucked into the center console / driver side of the dash. Wow - that's irritating.

Not to give it to grand a name "diagnostic plug" you know it's just a light blue two position socket you are looking for yes? Known as the SCS plug.

Pic quickly taken off NSXPrime...

[Tokyo-Joe]

Yep no blue plugs!

The area has obviously been messed about with so I guess the previous owner could have tucked it away in the wrong place.

[matpp]

Yep no blue plugs!

The area has obviously been messed about with so I guess the previous owner could have tucked it away in the wrong place.

I couldn't find mine to start with but it will be there......here's another photo if it helps


10989

[kingsley]

Hi Mathieu,

Looks like you are back on the road now. Did all go well with MOT and work you wanted doing.

Kingsley

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Yep no blue plugs!

The area has obviously been messed about with so I guess the previous owner could have tucked it away in the wrong place.
Hi, Tokyo-Joe.
I may have already forwarded this link through our previous email exchanges but please refer to the following link for reading the error code.

http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?9229-How-to-read-the-error-code...&p=85855#post85855

In the past, I saw several NSX with its Blue connector tacked away behind the glove box or the side fuse panel so you may want to remove the glove box to get better view.


Even if you couldn't find the Blue 2pin connector, it’s not the end of the world.
Bit annoying but you can always access it from several controller connectors such as the one at the ECU, TCS, ABS, EPS, AT.

Kaz