NSX NA2 6-speed manual vs 997 C2S

[Unregistered]

Hi guys, just wanted to know if you have any feedback on the pros and cons of one car vs the other. Only drove an NSX for about 2 miles a few years back so not a chance to really see what it was all about. The only thing that is putting me off a bit with the NSX is the age thing. The 35k (and above!) you would need to spend on a NA2 manual is getting a little steep actually. I'm viewing a '08 C2S tomorrow and I really don't know what do, I'm not loaded so it will be my only car, not for daily use but will defo be out and about every weekend... to buy or not to buy? Cheers

[Papalazarou]

Hi there,

I've had both. But in fairness I only had the Porsche for a few months.
My input would be that they are both excellent cars.
However each car has it's strengths and weaknesses.
The C2S is a little quicker, has more torque and awesome amounts of grip on lower speed corners. The cabin is a nice place to be; the adaptive sports seats in some cars are excellent and they sound great with the sports exhaust. Although strangely it gets quieter as the revs increase.
Unfortunately, there are some issues; you'd be crazy to buy without a warranty; bore scoring, intermediate shaft failures and RMS issues are reasonably common. You only have to consult the Porsche forum on PH to know that one. Secondly, the suspension isn't really set up for UK B roads. Mine bounced around a lot and was unnerving at turn-in on bumpy corners. They also feather quite a lot on the front. But you do get used to that quirk.
The strange thing about Porsches generally, SUVs aside, is how twitchy they are. At high speed, again on bumpy roads, they can be a handful. The final thing, which may matter or not, is that they are very common these days and this together with the known engine issues of the water cooled 911 engines has caused prices to fall considerably.
I believe the D.I engines have addressed some of the nagging issues. But these cars are still in the £45k + region.
The NSX in comparison; very well balanced on all roads. Fantastic 100% reliable engine with fantastic intake noise and lots of character. Fantastic build quality. Better that the C2S, great residuals. Incredibly rare. No ego. Mileage resistant.
The negatives would be; hard to source. Not as quick as some modern cars, but in the real world easier to drive than most and probably fast enough. I'd be quicker in an NSX on a badly surfaced B road than in a 911.
Parts can be expensive, but ordered from the US large savings can be made.
With regard to your £35K. It may seem like a lot for an older car. But these cars hold their value. The equivalent F car is more money and is in no way as usable.

There's no doubt more, but I'm supposed to be working.

Cheers,

James.

[Unregistered]

Thanks a lot mate, that's great feedback. With the NSX being so rare, I don't think many people would have owned both. What you say about the C2S happens quite a lot these days, with all the N'Ring frenzy, cars are becoming harsh to drive on everyday (real) roads. It's a tough call really, I personally prefer the looks of the NSX but it would have to be a facelift, I just like it better. Difficult question maybe but how much approx would you say owners could be asking for a 04/05 facelift these days, 40k+? Trouble is, we get into '09 GT-R territory for that money. Decisions Decisions! has anyone owned both NSX and GT-R? (pushing my luck here!). Cheers.

[NoelWatson]

has anyone owned both NSX and GT-R? (pushing my luck here!). Cheers.

There's at least one person on herem that has...

[NSXGB]

Member senna786 has owned a 2004 NSX and couple of GT-R's.

[Papalazarou]

Damian's got a GTR but also owned a late 3.2 pop-up.
Just a point about what things cost. You can indeed buy a lot of very nice cars for £35-£40K. Some are still in freefall and some are firming up. However, it all comes down to what you want. If you absolutely have to have a GTR or a C2S then that's what you'll buy.
If you are worried about depreciation, but want a sports car that doesn't devalue, has great build quality, is cheap to run, is rare and has plenty of character. Then an NSX fits the bill. If you can find one.

Back to the C2S. Fantastic cars, plentiful but still depreciating at a steady rate. However, if you buy sensibly, I guess you won't lose too much.
There are quite a few cars I've been considering lately, but I have a pretty strict criteria; low to zero depreciation. Soft top, at least as fast as I have, low running costs and good build quality. When you look at it in those terms, it seriously reduces the options.
For instance I quite like the F355, and on the face of it that's a fast, low running costs (for Ferrari) low depreciation car.
However, it's a little delicate and will depreciate if you pile on the miles.

The 996 GT3 has also tempted me, but it's a handful on the roads I favour and although you get the reliable flat six, it's still quite expensive to run. And obviously not a soft top. However, build quality is very good and they're becoming more affordable.

Funnily enough, I find the 996 interior a little dated compared to the 997. But not so much the NSX. maybe because it was never properly updated like the Porker, so there's little comparison.
Regarding to where NSX prices will go with the impending new model. I do not think prices will suffer. R34 prices didn't crumble with the launch of the R35 and 355 prices are actually creeping up, despite three new models over the last twelve years.


Cheers,


James.

[Tokyo-Joe]

I nearly went for the 997 for a fast, semi sensible (not highly strung 500hp turbo car) and a sexy body. Every time I browsed the 911 club to convince myself it was a good idea the horror stories of ££,£££ repairs spooked me enough to keep away. Looking back they really aren't that special are they? You see them every day. I'm glad I did not go for it.

I drove a European tour last year in my s2000 with some great cars, the 996 gt3 really stood out as a very interesting proposition. Looks, power and a different engine that apparently doesn't munch itself. The f360 also stood out as a dream car of mine but the repair bills when they go bad are firmly keeping me away. Just my inexperienced thoughts :)

[AR]

Just in case the OP should read on NSX issues too, is not all rosy.

[Papalazarou]

Just in case the OP should read on NSX issues too, is not all rosy.

True, NSX's aren't perfect. But compared to the competition, they are a much more straight forward proposition. They just don't suffer the same issues associated with other brands. The F360 that Tokyo-Joe mentioned has rose jointed suspension and needs replacing often. The 996-997 has, as discussed, engine issues, the F355 has some pretty expensive parts and they ALL crack b-pillars.
In contrast, the NSX is a gift; low servicing cost, bullet proof engine, etc etc.
In nearly seven years of ownership and four cars, I've had to replace; a wheel sensor, a couple of oxygen sensors and a rear brake light. Oh and a EPS control unit. But I had the old one reconned for free and sold it on. Add to that practically zero depreciation and little else competes.

Cheers,

James.

[markc]

Oh and a EPS control unit. But I had the old one reconned for free and sold it on.

Most of the issues AR is referring to are electrical and more specifically ageing capacitor and dry joint related which are easy and cheap to fix. Can I assume that was the problem with your EPS James? Even harmonic balancer failures aren't really issues as such as these should really be a 10yr maintenance item, as they are in the JDM schedule.

Even if a late model NSX became available at a good price I bet the OP doesn't buy an NSX over a 997 C2S though :P (Only trying to goad you on Mr Guest :))

Cheers

Mark

[m666 edd]

Even if a late model NSX became available at a good price I bet the OP doesn't buy an NSX over a 997 C2S though :P (Only trying to goad you on Mr Guest :))

Yeah, depends how decisive they are as I'm guessing a 997 C2S won't require as long a search to buy one.

[Papalazarou]

Most of the issues AR is referring to are electrical and more specifically ageing capacitor and dry joint related which are easy and cheap to fix. Can I assume that was the problem with your EPS James? Even harmonic balancer failures aren't really issues as such as these should really be a 10yr maintenance item, as they are in the JDM schedule.

Even if a late model NSX became available at a good price I bet the OP doesn't buy an NSX over a 997 C2S though :P (Only trying to goad you on Mr Guest :))

Cheers

Mark

You're right. In the end I sent it to BBA reman and they fixed it for free. I think you are probably right about the OP. He will no doubt buy the lemming model. I know I did once;-).

Cheers,


James.

[AR]

The capacitors are a cheap fix if DIY or sent to Kaz, Sudesh etc. but not every owner comes here.

Not every owner knows about the HB issues. In fact nobody talked about it much 10 years ago.

Failing oil coolers that lead to suspension damage that need whole arms replaced

Failing fuel pumps

Desintegrating Oil pump ring gear

ABS systems on early cars failing

Snap ring issues on early cars

Shrinking windscreen moulding

Coilpacks that seemed designed to get wet and fail

LEDs on the 3rd brake light going

Fogged up rear and 02 plus lights

Corrosion issues not only limited to 02 plus

Window regulators

And last but not least the over £ 100.00 Honda charges and the price of part even when purchased from the US.

So as good as the NSX is there is no such thing as a free lunch.
That is without counting all the straight cars that are bent etc!!!

[Unregistered]

Hi guys, very interesting reading. Had a look at the C2S today, didn't test drive it but went for a ride with the owner. Not sure what to say... I think I'd be happier owning a NSX vs the C2S, but not sure if I prefer it over the GT-R. I'm viewing a couple on Saturday see how I get on. Trouble with the NSX facelift cars is that there's none actually availlable, so it's not really a choice at this point. That's the deal with the C2S (even with the GT-R), they are a lot more common but that also means that you have a lot to choose from (mileage, colour, spec, year). I've been checking autotrader and PH for a few months and haven't really seen any facelift NSXs and if one does come along it'll probably be the only one available, take it or leave, no choice really. That's the problem, not enough to choose from, it just seems to make more sense to get one of the other two unless someone here is thinking of selling. Ta.

[Papalazarou]

Come on Ary,

it's still better than the alternative, and half of those things you've listed aren't exactly common. However, perhaps one of the biggest issues with the NSX is that if you crash one, you've probably written it off unless it's very minor and getting a good repair can be tough.
But, I still stand by what I said. In general most NSX owners have a very positive low cost experience with these cars.

Cheers,

James.

[nobby]

My biggest fear in owning the NSX ... a minor shunt will cost mega £££'s :(

At the end of the day we are talking about cars ... they will ALWAYS need work done to them at some point, parts failing etc. Just the nature of the beast; its a consumer item.

In saying that for the age of these cars and the problems listed above ... you weigh it all up and other cars/marques would likely have more issues than that.

all you can do is keep a good preventative maintenence schedule going and with Ary's list along with other well documented discussions for all other owners these are things that can be kept an eye on so potential trouble can be reduced even further with our cars.

I think anyone that buys a car now and does not access owner's forums especially the likes of an NSX on the net seriously needs to wake up and smell the coffee ... or get into the 21st century sharpish. yes forums can be full of sh1t .... my last car was an Evo ... and yeah a lot of morons out there that own these and spout crap on the likes of MLR etc but when reading through stuff you can learn a great deal.


However, perhaps one of the biggest issues with the NSX is that if you crash one, you've probably written it off unless it's very minor and getting a good repair can be tough.

[simonprelude]

My biggest fear in owning the NSX ... a minor shunt will cost mega £££'s :(

Bank on £10k minimum for a low speed rear end shunt. :(

[nobby]

that is deeply depressing and scary as hell

no wonder there are garage queens out there! :(


Bank on £10k minimum for a low speed rear end shunt. :(

[AR]

But, I still stand by what I said. In general most NSX owners have a very positive low cost experience with these cars.

Cheers,

James.

I agree with you James on this, but prospective owners need to realize that the NSX is a Super Car and when things go wrong is not just another Honda.

Cheers,

Ary

[Senninha]

Hi Ary,

Without doubt you have a lot of valuable experience with the NSX and yes, the items you list are good to have out in the open. If read in conjunction with this comment then for me it makes for a balanced view as you're making a very valid point.

I'm 5 yrs in with my 3.2 and aside from annual servicing, I've replaced the following that I consider sensible age/mileage related maintanance;

- Crank Pulley < £180 fitted
- Main relay < £70 fitted
- Timing Belt (age not mileage) < £480 fitted
- Full brake overall

I've also refreshed a variety of parts as I've worked around the NSX over my period of ownership ... mods aside I've spent hardly anything on Honda's Supercar and its not a garage queen as it ventures out rain or shine (or snow).

Some of the items on your list can have thier potential impact reduced or negated by competent maintenance, but as above, its good to have them out for all to think about.

Question to our Guest ...

Have you posted here and/or Pistonheads that you are looking for a facelift car? Others have done so and received offers of cars that have not been seen advertised elsewhere ... the point is that there are cars out there, but just as the NSX is a discreet supercar, so are many owners and they would rather not post out an advert and attract lots of attention to themselves or their NSX. I know many owners who frequent here yet never post ... so its worth a try

regards, Paul





I agree with you James on this, but prospective owners need to realize that the NSX is a Super Car and when things go wrong is not just another Honda.

Cheers,

Ary