NSX-R chassis bars

[matpp]

My NSX-R chassis bars arrived today and I've spent all morning on the search facilty to find the best way of fitting them.........I must be doing something wrong: I enter "NSX-R chassis bars" and get pages of unrelated topics!

I've searched on Prime and all install instructions I can find involve removing the front bumper which seems over the top.

Has anyone experience of fitting these without removing the bumper or any links of related posts?

I'll be fitting the upper and lower chassis bars together with the NSX-R front anti roll bar so shouldn't have any space issues.

Cheers,

[Senninha]

Here you go ...

http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?4216-Fitting-Nsx-R-Stab-Bars&highlight=chassis+bars

regards, Paul

[matpp]

Here you go ...

http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?4216-Fitting-Nsx-R-Stab-Bars&highlight=chassis+bars

regards, Paul

As usual, you've come up with the goodies......thanks Paul.

Although I did find a tread where you said it was the worst job your ever undertook on an NSX!

I've just fitted the third brake lamp and wiring this afternoon so that's enough for today.......along with the clear side repeaters it looks 100% better....especially when the car's silver (naturally, the best colour for an aluminium car).

Cheers,

[nigel]

Do NOT remove the front bumper.
It's a really easy install.
The bottom one falls on and the one that crosses in front of the radiator is easy but a little fidldey.
You will have to cut/trim the radiator shroud a bit for the front one but just turn on the radio, have at least one ale in reach and relax and take your time.
It should only take about three hours start to completion if you take your time.
Remember to measure twice, cut once when you trim the shroud. and it will look factory installed.
This is an instantly noticeable modification and you'll wonder why you didn't do it ages ago.

Cheers
nigel

[nobby]

sorry to appear a bit thick here but what are the MAIN benefits of installing the type r bars?

yes i understand it will most probably stiffen up the front of the car, but how does it compare to standard and normal driving with the occasional track day if i can get to one!

an easy to understand breakdown of benefits would be nice for us that have minimal mechanical backgrounds! :)

[Silver Surfer]

Suppose to make turn-in sharper but really depends on what tyres/wheel size/ how fast you are going and how stiff your suspension is to be honest....got it on mine due to everybody says how amazing it was many years ago but my lack of track experience was not sensitised to notice a difference....My rear ARB change to a stiffer one was more noticeable.

Forumadmin did mine by undoing the radiator from it's mount to move it back to get access.

SS

[Hagasan]

Yep, I pulled back the radiator to fit mine.

Like any suspensions system, for it to work correctly as designed it needs a solid stable frame from which to move. The idea is simply that the less flex in the frame the more the suspension will move in the way it is intended/anticipated. Sort of like the spring/damper is the unit carrying out the compression/rebound etc without the car body "giving way" and thus underworking the suspension, that way not getting the correct operation of the unit.

I'm more familiar with motorbike suspension systems and tuning where there is designed flex in the frames but there are quite different reason for that....

I think on a whole the bigger advantage of the R bars will be when you start to stiffen up the suspension components. As you stiffen the suspension you transmit more force through the body and this is where too much give becomes detrimental to both handling and over a longer time, overall body integrity.

Maybe:rolleyes:

[Senninha]

...... an easy to understand breakdown of benefits would be nice for us that have minimal mechanical backgrounds! :)

Less body roll = better grip from tyres = improved steering feel and turn in = more fun ....

... works for me, BUT, I would strongly recommend that if you are installing the front R roll bar, you should consider either the S or R rear bar to maintain balance. With just the front mine felt unsettled at the back until I added the S rr bar. This restored for me the balance and has given me a car that I feel confident to push but by retaining all other stock items, still has the OEM comforf levels and ability to soak up the lumps and bumps that our roads throw at us thereby remaining settled.

HTH ...

[matpp]

I'm fitting the chassis bars and front NSX-R ARB as I have a T top which arguably suffers from more body flex have the standard NSX. Will it help?.....I'll let you know once fitted and fully tested.

Anyone got a rear S or R ARB for sale?

[markc]

Gary's explanation regarding the stiffest, most stable platform for the suspension to work against is spot on.

Having said that, fitting them made bugger all difference to the feel of my car. Nice to know they're there tho' :)

Cheers

Mark

[AR]

Suppose to make turn-in sharper but really depends on what tyres/wheel size/ how fast you are going and how stiff your suspension is to be honest....got it on mine due to everybody says how amazing it was many years ago but my lack of track experience was not sensitised to notice a difference....My rear ARB change to a stiffer one was more noticeable.

Forumadmin did mine by undoing the radiator from it's mount to move it back to get access.

SS


FYI they are on K5 as well.

Easy mod but if you got big arms a pain in the neck to get the bar behind the radiator shorud.

[Hagasan]

Less body roll = better grip from tyres = improved steering feel and turn in = more fun ....

... works for me, BUT, I would strongly recommend that if you are installing the front R roll bar, you should consider either the S or R rear bar to maintain balance. With just the front mine felt unsettled at the back until I added the S rr bar. This restored for me the balance and has given me a car that I feel confident to push but by retaining all other stock items, still has the OEM comforf levels and ability to soak up the lumps and bumps that our roads throw at us thereby remaining settled.

HTH ...

Paul that seems opposite to what I'd expect....... I HAVE YOUR PLUG!!

The stiffer ARB on the front would promote more push or understeer making the back less likely to break away, just the front ploughing on. The safety option on many cars. A stiffer rear bar (if the S is stiffer than the normal T) in theory would make the rear roll less but then the breakaway would come quicker with less warning.

The issue here is that we're meddling with non-standard bars along with standard soft spring/shocks and a targa body, not a coupe. The factory cars are done over hours & hours of testing.

To expect an instant fix without trying out variables is hopeful at best. I'm not saying these changes don't bring improvements but I tend to ignore what the Yanks say as they only drive in straight lines!!

For info on my Targa, I now have the Type-R middle & lower chassis bars, a strut brace, uprated ARB's both ends, non-compliance pivots front and rear (with the rear beam bushes) and KW3 coil-overs and AD08 Yokos on 17" wheels. I find this set-up very direct/communicative. There is little perceived body role but comfort doesn't suffer. It is a little stiffer but still compliant, the KW3 are really good. The non-compliance pivots on the rear really take the slack floaty feeling out when setting into a fast corner and the fronts provide a good solid track for firm braking. The rear bushes I have allow getting the negative camber back towards factory settings although I modified my toe in-outs away from standard a little...

[NSXGB]

I don't think the R bars will give you better turn in or body roll as suggested above purely to strengthen the chassis. The only difference I seemed to notice was that my steering became lighter at parking speeds (manual rack).
For better turn in and less body roll, the anti roll bars need to be uprated...funnily enough.

[nobby]

interesting to get the feedback ... still in 2 minds regarding the potential purchase of this though. to further my query i will ask my mechanic who builds rally cars etc and seek his advice ... surely this sort of thing is evident in that sport ... not that i would be rallying the NSX!

i do like the sound of the manual rack becoming 'lighter'. that would be good :)

food for thought nonetheless; btw i have never actaully noticed much body roll in the NSX when pushing on. my car pretty is much standard all round in terms of chassis, wheels, suspension etc but never really had that feel ... car feels very planted in most driving conditions

defo feel something like this would perhaps need done when upgrading suspension componenents etc

cheers guys as always ... interesting read


I don't think the R bars will give you better turn in or body roll as suggested above purely to strengthen the chassis. The only difference I seemed to notice was that my steering became lighter at parking speeds (manual rack).
For better turn in and less body roll, the anti roll bars need to be uprated...funnily enough.

[matpp]

So which ARB's do you have installed?


Paul that seems opposite to what I'd expect....... I HAVE YOUR PLUG!!

The stiffer ARB on the front would promote more push or understeer making the back less likely to break away, just the front ploughing on. The safety option on many cars. A stiffer rear bar (if the S is stiffer than the normal T) in theory would make the rear roll less but then the breakaway would come quicker with less warning.

The issue here is that we're meddling with non-standard bars along with standard soft spring/shocks and a targa body, not a coupe. The factory cars are done over hours & hours of testing.

To expect an instant fix without trying out variables is hopeful at best. I'm not saying these changes don't bring improvements but I tend to ignore what the Yanks say as they only drive in straight lines!!

For info on my Targa, I now have the Type-R middle & lower chassis bars, a strut brace, uprated ARB's both ends, non-compliance pivots front and rear (with the rear beam bushes) and KW3 coil-overs and AD08 Yokos on 17" wheels. I find this set-up very direct/communicative. There is little perceived body role but comfort doesn't suffer. It is a little stiffer but still compliant, the KW3 are really good. The non-compliance pivots on the rear really take the slack floaty feeling out when setting into a fast corner and the fronts provide a good solid track for firm braking. The rear bushes I have allow getting the negative camber back towards factory settings although I modified my toe in-outs away from standard a little...

[Hagasan]

So which ARB's do you have installed?

Mine are the Dali Road/Track bars.....when I trusted buying from him!!

[nigel]

What they said.

Cheers
nigel

[matpp]

Just returned from the hospital suffering from severe bruising to the forearms.......that is a B1TCH of a job!

A friend suggested to break both arms, have them cast then do the install immediately after the cast is removed.

At least the front bar is now in place....the rest should be easy (hopefully).

Cheers,

[NSXGB]

I remember getting the same bruises!



Just returned from the hospital suffering from severe bruising to the forearms.......that is a B1TCH of a job!

A friend suggested to break both arms, have them cast then do the install immediately after the cast is removed.

At least the front bar is now in place....the rest should be easy (hopefully).

Cheers,

[gumball]

I don't think the R bars will give you better turn in or body roll as suggested above purely to strengthen the chassis. The only difference I seemed to notice was that my steering became lighter at parking speeds (manual rack).
For better turn in and less body roll, the anti roll bars need to be uprated...funnily enough.

Don't see how it can effect the weight of the steering?!

I have the type-S rear anti-roll bar, that has been very good at controlling the 'lifting' of the inside rear in fast sweepers(excuse the americanism).

[NSXGB]

It affects the steering I suspect as less effort is absorbed by chassis flex and is transferred to turning the wheels. Simple physics?



Don't see how it can effect the weight of the steering?!

I have the type-S rear anti-roll bar, that has been very good at controlling the 'lifting' of the inside rear in fast sweepers(excuse the americanism).

[markc]

It affects the steering I suspect as less effort is absorbed by chassis flex and is transferred to turning the wheels. Simple physics?

The car is hardly a wobby mess (a.k.a Saab convertible) without them, are you sure you didn't up the tyre pressures a smidge at around the same time?

Mark

[NSXGB]

The car is hardly a wobby mess (a.k.a Saab convertible) without them, are you sure you didn't up the tyre pressures a smidge at around the same time?

Mark

No, I don't believe I made any other changes at the time.
If the standard front end is stiff enough or ok, why would Honda bother to put them on at all?

[gumball]

No, I don't believe I made any other changes at the time.
If the standard front end is stiff enough or ok, why would Honda bother to put them on at all?

I think they would have beefed up the chassis to cope with the load of the stiffer suspension.

[NSXGB]

I think they would have beefed up the chassis to cope with the load of the stiffer suspension.
That's feasible, so, would that prove that there is room for improvement in the stiffness of the standard front end?

[gumball]

That's feasible, so, would that prove that there is room for improvement in the stiffness of the standard front end?



Kaz went into detail elsewhere about frequencies, but thats over my head. The way I see it is if you stiffen the suspension, it transfers more energy through the chassis, so then that needs to be beefing up a bit.
I have the old soft front which I'm happy to have as a compromise on our roads, so feel it's unnecessary to stiffen the front on mine.

[NSXGB]

Yes, I re-read Kaz's blog "is stiffer better" part 1. It does mention that the bars were installed to get better feel through the steering however transmits more vibration through the steering wheel so is the possible reason why the bars were not installed on other models.

I wish I'd tried the Type S rear ARB and standard f ARB combination first, seems to be popular. I do like the quicker turn in though of the Type-R front ARB though.



Kaz went into detail elsewhere about frequencies, but thats over my head. The way I see it is if you stiffen the suspension, it transfers more energy through the chassis, so then that needs to be beefing up a bit.
I have the old soft front which I'm happy to have as a compromise on our roads, so feel it's unnecessary to stiffen the front on mine.

[matpp]

With the front and lower chassis bars fitted (without the NSX-R ARB) it was time to take the car for a test drive yesterday. Initial impressions were that the steering felt lighter, turn in sharper but slightly vague in the straight ahead position. .....could this be due to the fact the standard ARB is touching the RH side of the lower chassis bar?

There's a downhill adverse camber bend with a few undulations just before our village and taking this at 100mph the car felt badly balanced: this is what prompted me the fit the chassis bars as, over a period of time, I put it down to chassis flex not suspension (remember, mine is a T). I took the same bend at the same speed yesterday and I'm pleased to report the handling is much tighter and the balance is now what I always expected from this car.

Total success? No, my forearms are still swollen and have now turned various shades of purple, blue and black.

I'll report back once the NSX-R ARB is fitted.

Cheers,

[matpp]

I forgot about this post!

Front NSX-R ARB and rear adjustable (19.25mm dia) ARB set on the third hole (out of 4) fitted some time ago and what a difference.

Less roll, better turn in and much more stable around the twisty bits......just what I was after. A highly recommended mod!

Can anyone tell me why the drop link nuts are so stiff.....it took 2 of us one hour to undo each nut!

Cheers,

[A.S. Motorsport]

there is such a thing as too stiff certainly for a car driving on a street with different conditions.
A certain amount of compliance is needed to retain grip.

Over the states we sell quite a few towerstrut braces to targa owners to extra reinforce the front frame.
Those drop link nuts can be a pain when they are seized or dirty.