S366 HCG will be in Norton Way tomorrow......

[Problem Child]

Cam belt, water pump etc etc change.

[Problem Child]

Dont know whether this is good news or bad but Norton Way called me today to say that the cam belt and water pump change was progressing well and that there was nothing additional that they noticed, so I was quite pleased with that.

They callled me later to say that when they fired her back up that they couldnt get the timing right, so want to keep the car a few days longer till they get it right. They say this happens now and again and told me not to worry....but I am!

Is this normal?
Do they know what they are doing?

[NSXGB]

They should know what they are doing...not heard of this type of issue before. Not sure how they could disturb the timing apart from the cam timing, meaning they put the belt on wrong??
Maybe it's just a bit of mis communication between workshop & front desk, quite often the case. I did note that when I was there before the youngish lad on the front desk did not seem to understand the basics of how a car worked...
Shame you are not getting it back for the great weekend of weather we are in for.

[Tokyo-Joe]

Barring Kaz I wouldn't take mine anywhere else mate, I'm sure you are in safe hands.

[Problem Child]

Everyone says the same about NW and I have been dealing with Brian Smith whos their main man so communications or understanding shouldnt be the problem. If this is an issue that no one has ever heard of on this site makes me worry about whether they have had their experienced guys working on this or not.

I have no doubt they will fix it but I am without my baby in this NSX beautiful weather and I wont be able to get back across to Letchworth until next weekend! I had planned to fix the leather on my drivers seat today and was due to have a parrot system fitted yesterday.

[manisandher]

Hi Geoff. Well this is interesting. I'm taking RY04 to NW tomorrow (26/3/12) to have its 8 year service done. Although the car's only done 18.5K miles, I'm having the cambelt changed. Ordinarily, I'd want Kaz to do this for me, but unfortunately it seems he's just too busy, and also I have a warranty with the car which would become void if I didn't stick with Nonda servicing (I think).

But what you describe really, really worries me. I know nothing about engines, but what's happened with your car just doesn't seem right to me. I'm in two minds to cancel my appointment. But then where else would I take it to get the cambelt changed?

Please keep us informed on what happens. Meanwhile, does anyone have any advice for me? Should I take my car to NW tomorrow or not???

Cheers,
Mani.

[Problem Child]

NW's reputation is second only to Kaz according to those in the know, so that gives me a confidence that they will sort it.

Their customer service has been excellent throughout this, and I will be on the phone tomorrow morning so will keep you posted. They have given the car a health check as its the frst time they had seen it and I pretty much gave them free reign to do what was necessary, but they can back and said the car didnt need anything else done. BAsed on what I have experienced, seen and heard I would use them again

Many of the guys on the site go to NW and dont have a problem so I'll keep you posted

I'm more concerned because I wanted my NSX this weekend to 1) enjoy it and 2) repair the leather on the drivers seat 3) have the parrot fitted and 4) put the new private plate on it

.........and I miss it! Theres a big space in my garage where my NSX should be! LOL

[Hagasan]

Hello Mani,

surely a business's reputation is more on how they deal with and rectify any problems? Assuming of course there is a problem. So far no-one knows what the whole story is. As Geoff suggested, it may just be a mis-communication between the front and back room boys....

I was going to get the TB, WP & coolant pipes all done by Kaz. Due to extended family issues at the time my money was partly required elsewhere so I had to reluctantly cancel with Kaz.

Although I was a little hesitant at the time having never used NW, I commissioned them to do the work. Of course it was never going to be anywhere near as detailed or meticulous as Kaz's work but the bare bones were done, all to what appears to have been a satisfactory level. I have some knowledge of cars so at least having a discussion with Bryan, previous to the work, made them aware I would be able to some degree to question and check any issues and not take waffly answers. As said all was ok, first time for me.

I have since had other work done by them including a gearbox swap with a new clutch as well as an oil pan swap. No issues to date. My only issue has been an expensive part I bought being faulty on arrival in the parts department. Unfortunately the replacement time from Japan for another is frustrating as nothing is held in the UK or the Belgian hub.

Hope this maybe alleviates your fears...

Gary


Hi Geoff. Well this is interesting. I'm taking RY04 to NW tomorrow (26/3/12) to have its 8 year service done. Although the car's only done 18.5K miles, I'm having the cambelt changed. Ordinarily, I'd want Kaz to do this for me, but unfortunately it seems he's just too busy, and also I have a warranty with the car which would become void if I didn't stick with Nonda servicing (I think).

But what you describe really, really worries me. I know nothing about engines, but what's happened with your car just doesn't seem right to me. I'm in two minds to cancel my appointment. But then where else would I take it to get the cambelt changed?

Please keep us informed on what happens. Meanwhile, does anyone have any advice for me? Should I take my car to NW tomorrow or not???

Cheers,
Mani.

[manisandher]

Hi Geoff, hi Gary, thanks for the responses.

I will indeed take my car to NW tomorrow morning. It seems they're simply the best Honda service centre for NSXs in the UK (well, England at least) right now. I'll post my thoughts on NW as soon as I pick my car up - scheduled for Tuesday lunchtime.

Thanks again.

Cheers, Mani.

[Problem Child]

Got a response from NW this morning....

"The problem has been ensuring all the tension on the belt is on the ‘drive side’ at installation, the camshafts can have a habit of trying to move during the belt routing and as there is very little space it can be very frustrating. Some are easier than others for no real reason, yours was one of the more difficult. All alignments are checked immediately after belt installation so there is no risk of the engine being run with incorrect valve timing."

Has anyone experienced this before?

Its all greek to me but talking to Brian at NW filled me with confidence that they are on top of it, and will deliver my car back to me this week rather than me having to go back there at the weekend. All in all I am very satisfied with their response.

[Hagasan]

I think in this case they are being upfront and honest-no bad thing. I haven't done it myself but I can imagine fitting the belt on this wide V6 motor with limited space isn't the easiest or most comfortable job. Once on then all the timing marks will need to be checked. It's probably as they say, while putting the belt on, a cam wheel moved thus altering the position of the camshaft to others and the crank and thus timing. Far better to check & double check all this before soldiering on..... these are just the delays customers probably don't appreciate at times. Some jobs go as planned but occasionally little hiccups or surprises pop up....

I'm sure all will be fine once completed....[

NW are in my good books today as my emailed me saying part has arrived considerably quicker than expected :)

QUOTE=oneillg1201;91822]Got a response from NW this morning....

"The problem has been ensuring all the tension on the belt is on the ‘drive side’ at installation, the camshafts can have a habit of trying to move during the belt routing and as there is very little space it can be very frustrating. Some are easier than others for no real reason, yours was one of the more difficult. All alignments are checked immediately after belt installation so there is no risk of the engine being run with incorrect valve timing."

Has anyone experienced this before?

Its all greek to me but talking to Brian at NW filled me with confidence that they are on top of it, and will deliver my car back to me this week rather than me having to go back there at the weekend. All in all I am very satisfied with their response. [/QUOTE]

[NSXGB]

I'm no expert either but I thought the procedure was to lock the camshafts in place with 5mm pins whilst changing the belt?

[nobby]

bottom line if they mess it up it will be under guarantee and they will have to resolve it at whatever the cost ... so at least you have that comfort WORST case. it wont come to that by sounds of it

i'm sure it will all get sorted and at least they are being careful and not just lashing it in there without proper testing, so thats great to hear

know its not nice not having the car for a. weather b. other jobs planned ... been there and still wearing the T SHIRT! :)

sometimes with these cars nothing appears as simple as it seems ... joys of NSX ownership ... you will continue to get these ... TRUST ME

[Problem Child]

Appears to be sorted although NW want to leave it overnight and do a cold start in the morning. When tye tested it, everything seemed OK today.

Got to say I am impressed at how NW have dealt with this and would have no hesitation in using them again. They are delivering my baby back to me tomorrow.

[manisandher]

We all know that sh*t happens. And yes, a true measure of a person/company is what they do to put it right when it does.

BUT... I still think there's a line to be drawn somewhere. There are some things that a professional person/company should simply never get wrong. I'm not certain if the issue with Geoff's car is one of them, but I suspect it might well be. I mean, 99.9% of all NSXs should of had their cambelts changed at least once by now. And NW have probably done this many, many times before. So why has there been an issue on this occasion? I find it really, really hard to accept their response, "... this happens now and again [so don't worry]...". My car is at NW right now. If there are any issues of this kind, I doubt I'll react as kindly as Geoff has done, irrespective of any reasoning they may come up with. It's a standard service. It should be done right with no issues... IMHO.

Is there any way we could clone Kaz?

Mani.

[Hagasan]

If someone is doing a job, encounters an "issue", recognises it and then rectifies it before it becomes a problem then where's the disaster? Unless anyone knows the absolute facts then all comments are really just conjecture... Frustrating as it may be, I'd rather miss one sunny day with my car than a month or more without it if a costly mistake were to be made.

I'm wary to a point of leaving any car/bike or whatever machine with a third party for work but if I don't have all the skills, facilities or time then I must have some faith in their abilities otherwise nothing will be progressed....

[sorepaws]

I'm still taking mine to Honda MK - they did the TB/WP last year and added an MOT for £25 :-D

[nobby]

in theory YES ... but there are those owners out there that simply think that because the car has not been driven that things like this dont necessarily need changed. Age of the car never gets questioned etc. When I was looking for my NSX I had this conversation with 1 or 2 vendors (private and trade)

we know different cause we discuss things like this on this forum openly.

the key thing about this job is that they are holding back giving the car back to ensure they are 100% happy with job; for Geoff's sake this is good news IMHO


I mean, 99.9% of all NSXs should of had their cambelts changed at least once by now.

[Nick Graves]

If someone is doing a job, encounters an "issue", recognises it and then rectifies it before it becomes a problem then where's the disaster? Unless anyone knows the absolute facts then all comments are really just conjecture... Frustrating as it may be, I'd rather miss one sunny day with my car than a month or more without it if a costly mistake were to be made.

I'm wary to a point of leaving any car/bike or whatever machine with a third party for work but if I don't have all the skills, facilities or time then I must have some faith in their abilities otherwise nothing will be progressed....

Well, exactly.

And if you've ever tried to change the timing belt on a transverse end-on it's a bitch hell mother. Even with one cam, it usually moves out a tooth when the tensioner goes on, however you yank it tight. Now try it with four cams & two belts ATEOTD & I'd throw me spanners & go down the pub too.

[manisandher]

Unless anyone knows the absolute facts then all comments are really just conjecture...
Yep, I agree. And I hope I made it clear it was speculation on my part.

It seems that those of you in the know feel the work on Geoff's car wasn't actually as straight forward an undertaking as I suspected, and that this issue can easily arise under the circumstances. In which case I agree, all NW can do is rectify the issue as quickly and as safely as possible, which it seems they've done.

I suppose my critical/cynical side comes out whenever I have any interaction with the motor trade...

Mani

[Hagasan]

Yep, I agree. And I hope I made it clear it was speculation on my part.

It seems that those of you in the know feel the work on Geoff's car wasn't actually as straight forward an undertaking as I suspected, and that this issue can easily arise under the circumstances. In which case I agree, all NW can do is rectify the issue as quickly and as safely as possible, which it seems they've done.

I suppose my critical/cynical side comes out whenever I have any interaction with the motor trade...

Mani

Hence my comment of being wary. However we shouldn't codemn a man and give him the rope before judgement is made. If in time he shall be proven comdemned through his actions then let it be by his own rope!!

....or some such waffle!!

[Papalazarou]

Any news yet? I haven't been able to sleep for days.

[Hagasan]

I wouldn't be able to sleep with a frosted knob either!!


Any news yet? I haven't been able to sleep for days.

[AR]

OP don't worry is just a cambelt on an NSX done by a Honda dealer that specializes in NSX.

I never heard of this when I had taken my cars in the past but a dealer did managed to break off one of the valve cover bolts!

[manisandher]

I don't really want to turn this thread into a running commentary of the 8-year service for RY04, but I just got a call from NW saying that the service is going well but that there are a couple of issues.

(I may well get some of the following terms wrong, so forgive me.) I spoke to Mike over the phone. He said that they'd like to do some 'rocker cover adjustment' (for £80 extra) and that this would be a good time to do this as they currently have good access. However, if they do this then they would also want to replace some 'seals'. Either Mike wasn't clear as to exactly which seals he's taking about, or I just didn't understand. In any event, they don't have these seals in stock, but could get them by tomorrow so would keep the car overnight.

Ordinarily, I would be fine with this. However, due to work commitments, if I don't collect the car today it'll be another 3-4 weeks before I'm able to do so. He did offer to have it dropped off at my place tomorrow in my absence, but I'm just not comfortable with this.

I've just been reading Kaz's Engine Refresh Stage 1 (http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/blog.php?1811-Today-at-Atelier-Kaz-NSX-Enthusiast&blogcategoryid=29) which is brilliant, but got me thinking. If Mike was talking about the rubber seals on the TB front and rear covers, well shouldn't these be replaced as standard when replacing the TB?

Are there any other seals that would need to be replaced when doing a 'rocker cover adjustment'?

(Apologies to everyone involved if I've got everything wrong.)

Mani.

EDIT: Having read more of Kaz's blog, I now realise that Mike was talking about 'valve clearance adjustment'. He did mention 'rocker covers' also, but I think I'm just getting everything mixed up. Because they can't get the required new rubber seals today, they're not going to do the valve clearance adjustment. But what concerns me is that without replacing these seals now, there's some risk of an oil leak, according to Mike.

[Nick Graves]

It makes sense to do everything whilst it's all in bits; saves labour.

But it's not the end of the world to lose the plugs & cam covers & have the valve clearances & plug cover seals done at a later date.

[Papalazarou]

It does seem crazy to do valve clearances on a low mileage car.

Cheers,

James.

[Senninha]

Hi Mani,

I do remember being at Kaz' place once when he was preparing the TB service. The amount of parts he changes compared to NW was almost double. The point is that the UK service schedule seems not to be as in depth as say the JDM schedule or indeed the Kaz schedule.

NW maintained my car for most of its first 10 yrs. With the exception of an oil filter that seemed to have been re-used I always found Brian and his team very supportive and caring with the NSX community.

Dont forget to mention NSXCB for your club discount

regards, Paul

[Problem Child]

Well Papalrazou you can now sleep easier at night as my baby has been returned to me, safe and sound.

Bryan from NW delivered my car back to my home and I managed to take it out for a wee run whilst still daylight. Had been very careful since bought the car to keep revs down etc but now the cam belt, water pump, seals, valve clearances have all been done I gave it the beans for the first time. What a noise! What great fun!

I dont know what difference all this work makes to the "drive" but it felt more solid and responsive and more like what I expected from an NSX...could all just be in the mind!

Scare over, Well done NW.....NSXCB discount...........I'll be back

[manisandher]

I collected RY04 from NW yesterday. They seem to have done the 8-year service satisfactorily and its performance seems to be at least on par with when I handed it in. I had fun with an Audi RS3 on my way home on the A453 - I think the driver was a bit shocked when I blasted past him on a straight (in fairness, we were both behind a Mondeo and the Audi bottled out of overtaking it when all three of us passed a truck - I'm not sure what type it was, but the Mondeo was pretty rapid itself though).

There are a couple of minor things that I'm not so impressed with though:
- For the £1055 the service cost me, I didn't even get an exterior or interior wash/clean (yes, I know that many NSX owners prefer not to have one, but I wasn't even asked)!
- Whilst they were doing the servicing, Mike mentioned to me over the phone that they noticed the brake fluid was in bad shape. He said they'd change this free of charge... and yet I was in fact charged for it.

Oh and I didn't even know about the NSX Club discount. (But I haven't yet made a donation, so maybe I'm not deserving.)

For it's next service, I'm sorely tempted to invalidate the 3-year warranty I have and try to get Kaz or Sudesh to do it, and give the car a thorough looking over - it's a keeper for me and I want it in the best possible shape. I just know I'd be happier having these guys do the work (and I'm more than prepared to pay any extra for this... hint, hint Kaz/Sudesh).

Mani.

[Problem Child]

If you've just had your service done in NW you might find Kaz to be more local than Sudesh. Kaz is in Bucks....I believe Sudesh is in Northern Ireland!

[Nick Graves]

You should be bloody grateful they didn't clean it Mani!

I've spent all afternoon grinding the swirls they made out of the Prelude....

[AR]

Glad all cars are back with their owners and everyone can sleep soundly once again!

[nobby]

just my 2 pence worth:

Regardless of their reputation they are still a d(st)ealer and I dont much care for them. A really good independent garage with a reputation of working on sports cars would give you a better service IMHO.

I would not let anyone wash my car at a dealer... the horror stories and proven fact of damage to cars when washed ... CRIMINAL damage!

the charge for a freebie is nothing new tbh

Club discount - for a donation you should do it! :)

I feared invalidating my 3 year warranty when I owned my Evo ... but on further reviewing the warranty IF i stuck to using genuine Mitsubishi parts etc the warranty would stand ... I would presume Honda should be of the same opinion

Also you drive an NSX ... if cared for (which you want to do) it should NEVER cause you any hassle ... so what you gonna get from them?

No doubt if anything serious does go on your car ... i'm sure Honda etc will do their very best to wriggle out from paying out ... again my humble opinion

I am fortunate to be based in NI and have Sudesh to oversee my NSX for which i am truly grateful.

If i lived in England/Scotland/Wales ... I would book my car with Kaz ... END OF

IF there comes a time that Sudesh tells me to send my car to Kaz (via lorry transport etc) I will do it ... and if thats not feasible I will look for a highly regarded independent before resorting to a dealer if Sudesh is unable to do the work for any reason.

hopefully over time you will get over these thoughts and enjoy driving your lovely LBB after the money you spent on it!

:)


There are a couple of minor things that I'm not so impressed with though:
- For the £1055 the service cost me, I didn't even get an exterior or interior wash/clean (yes, I know that many NSX owners prefer not to have one, but I wasn't even asked)!
- Whilst they were doing the servicing, Mike mentioned to me over the phone that they noticed the brake fluid was in bad shape. He said they'd change this free of charge... and yet I was in fact charged for it.

Oh and I didn't even know about the NSX Club discount. (But I haven't yet made a donation, so maybe I'm not deserving.)

For it's next service, I'm sorely tempted to invalidate the 3-year warranty I have and try to get Kaz or Sudesh to do it, and give the car a thorough looking over - it's a keeper for me and I want it in the best possible shape. I just know I'd be happier having these guys do the work (and I'm more than prepared to pay any extra for this... hint, hint Kaz/Sudesh).

Mani.

[Hagasan]

Look at the options many people have though.....

Kaz, one man alone cannot hope to manage the servicing of everyones cars.....plus I wouldn't think he'd want all the pressure of customers becoming impatient.

At that point the options are to either go to another one man "operation" if available, an independant or a dealer who has the capacity to do work in a quicker timeframe. I depends how long you can wait or be prepared to do without your car if need be....

I'm not sure of the specifics of a Honda entended warranty as I don't know if it is a Honda owned scheme or covered by a third party insurance? I thought block exemption prohibited manufacturers from forcing owners to use their dealers for servicing to maintain a warranty? As long as it could be proved that parts of a sufficient quality were used and that the service schedule was following closely then the warranty would still be honoured?

As for washing though. Well I'm no washer or detailing expert but I would rather wash my own car than let anyone else do it..... Apart from Ian and Sharon in Germany xx

[NSXGB]

I would rather wash my own car than let anyone else do it..... Apart from Ian and Sharon in Germany xx

...yes they do a good job... :)